Haven’t been Doping in a while, which is a real shame. As penance, though, I come to the Dope with this question, which was asked of me by a fellow sci-fi loving friend, and figured the SDMB is the perfect place to post this:
Borg vs. Jedi, who would win?
Please be sure to show your work (ie say why you think your choice will be the victor)
Because light sabers.
My choice: Borg. Sorry, I do love both Star Wars and Star Trek, but I really don’t see any power the Jedis have that the Borg can’t easily adapt to given the weapons they’ve faced before. Sure, the Jedi have mind powers, but so do the Vulcans and Betazoids (was there ever an Ocampan that was assimilated?) Sure, they have light sabers, but they aren’t that much more dangerous than phasers. It’s just a damn good thing these two universes will never meet.
We voted Borg as well, all it takes is for a drone to get close enough to use their injection tubules to inject the Jedi with nanoprobes and the collective has a new drone
the next question would be, if a Jedi got assimilated, would they lose their Force abilities, or would the collective be able to Use the Force?
(let’s discount the irrelevant “Midichlorian” explanation, and use TOT Jedi like Original Vader, Old Ben, Puppet Yoda and Whiny Luke, not the prequel abominations)
You will be assimilated, Resistance is Futile
How many we talking here? Jedi could just run through the first couple before the Borg dial in the frequency or whatever it is they do for defense.
Not sure how mind control would work on a collective.
The OP will have to reframe the debate and give location, numbers, weaponry and any other pedantic geek nitpick to fully explore this.
Jedi have no chance. Borg has trillions of drones for each Jedi. Borg could lose a hundred billion drones learning how to adapt to lightsabers, and still not suffer significant losses. It took exactly 3 drone deaths to adapt to small phaser fire, remember.
Also, teleporters. The end.
Jedi are good, Borg are evil. After some suitable suspense and desperate setbacks the [del]writers[/del] Jedi will find a way to defeat the Borg. Even in the Star Trek universe the Borg were very badly nerfed by the end of Voyager.
As much as the OP is a huge geek, the OP also likes the simplicity of the way the question was originally asked of him, and that’s why it’s asked thusly here.
Also, all the Borg have to do to gain the upper hand on the Jedi is a simple Jedinapping, like they did to Picard in the BOBW 2 parter, find a Jedi that’s hidden himself away from the world, like, oh, let’s say… Yoda…, kidnap him from Dagobah, beam him up to a handy assimilation chamber aboard the cube, and let the nanoprobes work their magic…
soon, the Jedi will hear…
“Borg we are, Yes…, futile resistance is, Assimilated…<darkly> You…Will…Be!”
The Borg always lose. The Jedi only lose to other Jedi.
I’m backing the Jedi on this one. Borg cubes probably have a garbage portal or some such that leads directly to the propulsion chamber. Jedi can get in tight with a fighter and use the Force to guide a missile in, then…BOOM!
I never understood the vaunted Borg “adaptation” ability, anyway. How can you “adapt” to physical forces? If you started pushing Borgs off the top of the Chrysler building, will they eventually start to bounce?
I’ll see your nanoprobes and raise you midi-chlorians
One should never underestimate the power of The Force.
If a borg drone can adapt to resist a phaser, I’m presuming that lightsaber’s would have some sort of ‘frequency’ that could be adapted to as well? Meaning after a few swats the Jedi wouldn’t be slashing up drones left, right and centre. However I can’t see any way they could adapt to say a force push.
Plus, the drones to me are the epitome of being weak willed, the drones still have some level of personal consciousness, while still being controlled by the collective, and I think the jedi mind trick would work an absolute treat on borg drones.
I don’t doubt that some Jedi would be assimilated, but I can’t see them being any better than any other humanoid drone. I definitely can’t see them retaining the ability to use the force.
The only way for the Jedi to do serious damage to the collective though would be to get aboard a cube and, and I’m not sure how they would go about doing that. Unless you’re willing to argue they have access to Clone Army resources and the proto-star destroyers, in which case it’s not really a Jedi v Borg battle anymore.
If we go with the original trilogy, perhaps the force can’t be tapped into by unfeeling automatons. However, the prequels made the force biological. The Borg keep the biological abilities of anything they assimilate. And the assimilation means they will gain the knowledge of how to use them. The only way they wouldn’t keep it is if the assimilation nanoprobes somehow destroyed the midichlorians. We are shown that having emotions period is a liability to the Jedi, and since they are Force users, that means emotions are not necessary to use the Force.
In fact, since the nanoprobes actually contains small replicators, it wouldn’t be too hard for the Borg to give every drone Force powers. Perhaps the former Jedi would have to make it back to a testing facility, but, then again, that’s required for full assimilation, anyways. The only hope of the Jedi is to kill their own if they are assimilated.
In fact, I only see a Jedi victory if they get smart enough to steal the Storm Trooper armor for use in all battles, rather than fighting without any protection but their own ability to use the Force. Eventually one person will slip up. Force suggestion is great, but it’s nowhere near the first technique the Jedi will try. And I do believe the Borg will eventually adapt: all you need is a stronger signal from the queen (once she’s formed) to override the suggestion.
So I see a Jedi victory as follows: The Borg attack a planet in the Republic that doesn’t have much defenses, and take it. They beam down to gather information by assimilation. Now knowing about the Republic, they realize that, while the bigger ships are great, the big prize are these warriors with powers they don’t have (and perhaps the outrageously strong lightsabers that the warriors use.) Arrogant as always, they simply confront the Jedi head on, beaming down to the Counsil, after the Jedi numbers have picked back up to prequel levels, and all are present. The Jedi fight well, and the Borg are nearly overwhelmed, but one Jedi lets his guard down, and gets stabbed. Luckily (or due to the Force), the Jedi had just heard about assimilation, and, not taking any chances, attack the assimilated Jedi. Unfortunately, he’s a pretty good match. Fortunately, one of the Jedi gets the idea to reach at his mind, and realizes that he is very suggestible, and has him kill himself. Knowing this, the Jedi use Force suggestion to have the Borg drones fight and kill themselves, while the Jedi slowly leave.
Not knowing what to do with this new challenge, the Borg activate the Queen. She reviews the broadcast memories of the fallen drones, and realizes that the drones were controlled. She also knows about the midichlorians, but does not have enough information to replicate them. So she knows she’s going to have to get involved herself, along with newly engineered stronger willed drones.
Fortunately for the Jedi, the Borg are still arrogant, and still send a cube, giving the Jedi enough time to prepare. Every Jedi dons Storm Trooper armor that the Republic was going to use for their new infantry soldiers. Fortunately, these are all now Force users and thus Jedi (otherwise why wouldn’t they help) due to blood infusion. Unable to use Jedi mind tricks, they fight by themselves. The queen, of course, stays out of the way of battle, but at least some Jedi are pilots and attack the cube. Fortunately, the Borg did not get too much information about ships in their first assimilation, and so Death Star level ships are enough to blow the cube out of the sky, killing the queen.
Of course, the Borg themselves are fine, but, after two losses, they do what they did with humanity and decide to lay back for a while, studying the new Republic from afar. Sure, there are a few more skirmishes, but these are largely space-based, and, seeing as the Borg aren’t that great against even vastly lower powered ships, the Borg don’t do that well. Eventually they decide to just sit back and let the Republic deal with threats from other sources, hoping to pick them off after they lose to another Empire.
How would a Borg protect agains a force choke? A force that ‘binds the universe together’ and can lift an X-wing at will?
Lightsabers don’t have “frequencies”. They’re goddamned lighsabers.
I chose Borg cube in a walkover. To me, the Jedi have always seemed seriously underpowered, policing a galactic empire with powers roughly on par with your average stage magician’s: “Seriously, Mr. Stormtrooper, are you sure these are the droids you want? Or are THESE the droids you want?” (Waves hand, droids appear in the audience, to a smattering of applause.)
Guys guys guys! The OP has managed to pull you into a Starwars vs. Star Trek debate…need I say it?
IS A TRAP!
