“Every time a stormtrooper misses, an angel gets its wings.”
Stranger
Lumpy: I debated whether or not to reveal the totality of my “geekiness” with a reply, and figured what the hell.
One of the first campaigns I’ve played with the Star Wars RPG covered this very issue. Our GM started us out about 5 years before The Battle of Yavin.
Long story short, we got to be a part of the Battle of Yavin, using our plan. The “Shot Heard 'Round The Galaxy,” fired by Gold Leader, went in just around the time the first wave of TIE fighters was just beginning to show up to engage the X-Wings. We didn’t lose a single fighter to the attack, as we retreated away from the (soon-to-go-kablooey) DS toot-sweet and the TIEs didn’t pursue.
The way our GM covered the whole “Luke Thing” is that he was still the Golden Boy for helping to rescue Leia, and being a true (if nascent) Force User/Jedi trained directly by Obi Wan Kenobi (whom several of the older Rebel leaders remembered, and respected).
Things pretty much proceeded as/according to the movie, but the Rebels got a bit more of a “victory boost” as they didn’t lose a single fighter to the attack.
In the movie, Gold Leader didn’t get the chance to launch his torpedos; Red Leader did. How did Gold Leader survive long enough in your campaign to launch his torpedos?
Our attack plan was formulated by myself and another player, a helicopter crew chief and a good friend.
Our plan:
(MY Plan!)
(THE plan!) :rolleyes:
Once the target shaft was located, we threw everything directly at it. No diversionary attacks on our approach; no “cutting across their axis to draw their fire,” no surface strafing to piss off the Imperials and make them want to come out and fight us.
The Y-Wings went into the trench, balls-to-the-wall, in a “line ahead” formation, one ship behind the other, with just enough room in between us for the rear ship to cover the one in front of it. For the Y-Wings without gunners, ion cannons were set facing the rear; this was in case the Imperials wanted to try to roll-up the Y-Wing formation starting from the rear and working their way “up-the-line.”
The X-wings followed apace, flying “high cover” at/about “medium altitude” above the trench: low enough to catch any TIE fighters trying to make it down into the trench and engage us Y-Wings, high enough to maintain a tight “cover formation” and not be too worried about “flak fire” from the surface-mounted turbolaser cannons. If a TIE wanted to slip into the trench and engage us Y-Wings on our attack run, they’d have to first mix-it-up with the X-Wings flying high cover, then survive the Y-Wings flying cover in the trench.
We put the best shot with torpedoes at the head of the Y-Wing column; the second best right behind him, and so on.
The target shaft was located in a trench “further north” than the main fighter launch bays around the equatorial trench. For our approach, we flew in on a course that put us way up “north” on the DS, instead of flying in at the equator and turning 90-degrees to parallel the surface.
The Imperials didn’t launch TIEs as early as they did in the movie, mainly because they weren’t sure what we were up to (and besides, no “snub fighter” could possibly harm their mighty battle station), but also because we Rebels didn’t fly down and start shooting up the DS’s surface; we stayed “up high” until we were ready to enter the trench.
By the time the first wave (the “ready fighters”) launched, and flew “north” to engage us, Gold Leader was already halfway down the trench. None of the “first wave” of TIEs could even break through the tight X-Wing formation flying high cover; the sporadic and inaccurate turbolaser fire stopped as soon as the TIEs showed up, even though none of them made it down into the trench to engage the Y-Wings.
Gold Leader had an easy, unmolested run at the target shaft, loosed his torpedoes right down the hole, and we all rocketed out of there as fast as our engines and an orderly withdrawal allowed.
[Side Note] According to our GM, Luke was briefly pursued by Vader (who had figured out what we were up to, and had made one abortive attempt to make it through the covering X-Wings down into the trench, losing several wingmen in the process; sort of a reversal of the original attack portrayed in the movie) who noted, “This one is strong in The Force.”
Vader’s pursuit was brief, however, as Wedge Antilles damned near blew his solar panels off.
Han still returned, but just in time to see 30 Rebel fighters retreating directly towards him/away from the approaching Death Star, before he saw a brilliant flash of white. Luke/Leia forgave him, as his return showed that his heart was at least in the right place. [/Side Note]
The Imperial TIEs, what remained of the limited “first wave” ready fighters, or the much larger “follow up” wave, didn’t bother to pursue, figuring they had scared us off. Vader knew what the Rebel retreat signalled, and barely managed to limp to minimum safe distance before the Great Space Kablooey of Yavin (why yes, I am a Calvin & Hobbes fan).
Now, before a whole bunch of people jump in here and start picking it apart, especially by comparing it to the movies, let me say this:
I’ve had an unpleasant “history,” directed at me, involving red pepper, flamethrowers, spittle, screaming, fist-shaking, and near-apoplexy associated with this tale, caused by die-hard Star Wars Fanboys who cannot grasp the concept of roleplaying games (even though many of them are gamers; zee irony, it burns!), or people wanting to try to do something “different” in a beloved tale.
I apologize in advance to all the reasonable, sane people of The SDMB Cafe Society for my tone, when I make the following points:
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It’s a role-playing game. The GM sets the “Universe,” and what happens in it.
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I wasn’t the GM; just a guy playing a Y-Wing pilot, a “Bone driver,” in the 4th position in the attack. That’s where my character’s “Starship Gunnery” skill got me in the lineup.
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It was played almost 20 years ago; any criticisms you may have aren’t going to fall upon the ears of the GM, and I lost touch with him a decade ago. IOW, I had no editorial control over content beyond my participation as a player, and I sure as Hell don’t have a time machine to go back and undo that particular game session.
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It’s just a roleplaying game.
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It’s just a roleplaying game.
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Really, it’s just a roleplaying game!
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LEAVE ME ALONE, SHUT THE FUCK UP, IT’S JUST A GODDAMNED ROLEPLAYING GAME!!!
I put point 7 in there as a sort of preemptive nuclear strike to (hopefully) forestall any screaming, raging fan-boys/girls who want to mix-it-up over my former GM’s interpretation of how the Battle of Yavin could have possibly gone in a roleplaying game session that took place almost 20 years ago.
Seems reasonable to me.
I don’t mind a reasonable, reasoned debate over tactics, Boss. Hell, I welcome it. I love “what ifs.”
I can’t stand people who come in, and address me in the same supercilious tone as a lissener or elucidator, and explain, in exquisite detail, how, no matter what the GM says, it couldn’t have possibly occured in the manner described.
What’s even worse is the screaming-and-spittle-flying-from-lips tone of others who practically demand that I retract what I have written.
What I don’t understand in the movie is why the Rebs entered the trench so far back, aside for the need to build tension and pad the film that is, if you’re going to assault the one known weak spot on a planet-killing space station, shouldn’t you enter as close to the target as possible, thus minimizing the length of the trench-run?
In fact, wouldn’t it be logical to have a multitiered attack on the station?
Alpha squad would do a short trench run to launch protorps into the exhaust port
Beta Squad would run the trench either from further back, or in the opposite direction to draw the turbolaser tower fire and TIE fighter attacks
Delta squad would provide “air cover”, traveling the same course as Alpha squad, knocking out turbolaser embankments and TIEs
Gamma squad would provide cover for Beta Squad
The thing you have to think about when you talk about distance to the actual exhaust port was that in a space vacuum everything is in such a straight line, and going at such inhibited speeds, you almost HAVE to start way in the back of the trench so that you can set yourself up with the right trajectory to make it into the hole.
That being said…
Why did it take so long for the rebel pilots to aim at the hole? If they were led by computers who had the data of the Death Star in its system, and they are operating in the space vacuum…why couldn’t the computer have found out exactly what they were trying to shoot at, and then shot it WAY further back knowing there is no gravity/wind to hinder it?
So, if everything is a straight line, why did the second group of protorps (which appear to be nothing more than coherent projected energy, there appears to be no “torpedo” to speak of, they look to be 100% energy based, dumb devices, no guidance system) make, essentially a 90 degree turn and go down into the exhaust port, it can’t be due to the port pulling them in, as it is an exhaust port
ExTank, what about the gun emplacements on the surface and in the trenches? IIRC from the movie, the fire broke off only when the TIE fighters approached. Wouldn’t they have been dangerous and possibly broken up the formations? Tight formations are shooting galleries for AA fire, no?
most people (including obiwan at the time) thought all the jedi had died by the clone army turning on them. when obiwan meets up with yoda, kenobi thinks that they are the only ones left, but is hopeful for others. he was under the impression that anakin died at the temple.
then when they go to the temple, yoda knows what has happened it takes obiwan a bit longer to figure it out and needs the hologram to believe it.
this is where they hear him called darth vader.
yoda and kenobi separate to go after vader and his master. they both lose. now the spotlight is on amidala.
it is never really made clear either in the movie based books or in the movie if organa knows that skywalker is vader. it doesn’t even seem clear if he knows that skywalker is the father of amidala’s kidlets. he leaves the room when kenobi and yoda start to discuss luke.
so those that are in the know (for sure) about anakin’s turning are:
darth vader
the emperor
yoda
kenobi
people who know for sure that luke is anakin’s son:
yoda
kenobi
lars and beru
those who know leia is skywalker’s daughter:
yoda
kenobi
bail organa is a possible but not a definite with regard to the above knowledge.
amidala only discussed paternity with one person, that was anakin. she confirmed kenobi’s knowledge but did not tell him or any one else.
On our “polar approach,” we were at sufficient “altitude” that the surface emplacements couldn’t effectively engage us. Once the target shaft/trench was located, the Y-Wings went in full-throttle, the X-Wings dropped down low enough to cover the Y-Wings, and provide a target just tempting enough for the surface gun to shoot at, yet high enough to not be seriously threatened by them, and the Imperials were slow to react to this change, again because they didn’t really know what we were up to.
By the mechanics of the early release of the Star Wars RPG, there were no set ranges for weapons; everything was pretty much described as “short, medium, and long.” So our magical altitude was pure conjecture, a number arrived at by the fact that our characters (and all the senior pilots leading the DS attack) were “experienced, knowledgable” and could determine what distance was close enough for “cover,” yet high enough not to be seriously threatened.
More “realistically,” a lower altitude would probably have been safer, as the larger weapons emplacements couldn’t traverse fast enough to track the fast-moving “snub fighters.” At a higher altitude, the “arc” of movement may have been small enough that, without constant evasive maneuvers, the “snub fighter” could very well be imperilled by even large guns.
TIEs were launched from equatorial bays (the “ready fighters,” that small portion of a force that’s kept ready to launch at almost a moments notice), but still had to travel from the equator up to almost the “north pole” of the DS to get to us.
The guns had to split their fire between the Y-Wings in the trench and the X-Wings flying cover, at least until the first wave of TIEs arrived, at which point they could (and did) begin concentrating their fire in the trench. But by that time, we more than halfway through the attack run, so our “time under fire” was much more limited than what was seen in the movies.
MacTech, Sir T Cups: G. Lucas’ inspiration and vision for the DS fighter scenes was drawn from WWII aerial footage, and thus technologically mimics capabilities more appropriate to 1940, not a “realistic” :rolleyes: technologically advanced space-faring culture.
Yeah I fully believe this.
I have seen enough little specials on Star Wars to know that Lucas went all out in pretty much everything he ever thought/wrote/directed in the entire freakin’ franchise.
Well, they had to make the shot with the computers available in 1977, which weren’t too powerful.
ExTank, I’m impressed by your plan. I like it, and I wish I had had an opportunity to be a part of it.
Sorry, another part of your question I didn’t address: the X-Wings were flying a relatively tight formation; tight enough to protect each other from TIE Fighters, and make it difficult for TIEs to slip through. But they weren’t flying wingtip-to-wingtip like B-17s making the final turn to start their bombing run over Berlin.
There’s a real-life WWII fighter tactic called a Thach Weave, and it was this tactic we envisioned the 24-or-so X-Wings using to protect themselves from interloping TIEs as well as providing some basic evasive maneuvers against the surface emplacements.
Ya know, thinking back on it, we kinda dropped this plan as a bombshell on our GM, and then almost immediately played out the attack scneario. I think, if he (our GM) had been given time to analyze and absorb our ideas, he may have come up with more effective counter-tactics on the Imperial’s part.
I do remember that in future games, it was almost “Standard Imperial Tactical Doctrine” to launch everything, including the kitchen sink, and the Grand Moff’s hot tub, at any formation of Rebel fighters.
In the Star Wars campaign I’m in right now, we may be building up to exactly this scenario. I’m going to have to bookmark ExTank’s post so we can use it ourselves, should the opportunity present itself.
:o I’m at best a 50/50 collaborator. My whirly-bird bubble-head Army buddy deserves at least half the credit as well.
My real contribution was, “In the face of overwhelming force superiority, don’t divide your own forces; that invites defeat in detail. Concentrate all your forces on your objective; everything every element does should be a part of either the attack directly upon the objective, or helping that attack succeed.”
And that’s hardly original. I think Sun-Tzu had something to say to that effect a few thousand years ago.
Plus, I’m a raging Y-Wing fanboy. The movies don’t really address their capabilities much (except to say that, if you watch Return of the Jedi closely, the fighter kicking the most Imperial ass at The Battle of Endor is the Y-Wing), and the novels do them great disservice.
In every iteration of the role-playing game that I’ve been a Y-Wing pilot, I’ve used this rugged and versatile fighter’s capabilities to maximum effect, often astounding my GMs.
A quote from one of my former GMs, who was trying to shoot me down with a flight (4) TIE fighters:
“Will you @#$%& eject already, so I can capture you, reveal the evil plan, let you escape and warn the others?”
Me: “No.”
And I never understand why. The stats/capabilities are spelled out in plain English right there on the pages of the rulebook. It’s not like I’m rules-lawyering, or “modifying” the stock stats into a munchkin-mobile. I play a competent pilot flying a stock Y-Wing (I do prefer the two-seater version, with a competent gunner/weapons officer in the back seat), and I whup ass.
Beware the Evil GM! I think our plan worked as well as it did because our GM didn’t really think through the implications of our plan.
I’m enough of a bastard that if I were GM of a “Battle of Yavin” game session, I’d scramble every available fighter the moment I detected the approaching Rebel force.
Heck, I’d launch everything even if I was being attacked by a pack of Cub Scouts flying in on Scooty Puff Jrs.
I think you overestimate their chances.