You seem to be suggesting that God allows evil to exist as a means to an end, but that would mean that God is not all powerful, because all powerful entities do not require means to ends.
No, I am making no argument with regard to why evil exists. I’m saying that evil does exist, and God is able to make good come from it, but that does not make it less evil.
But it can’t be separated from God. If evil exists, it can only exist because God wants it to.
Perhaps, but that’s a well-tread argument and not my point. My point is that a good outcome does not justify an evil act.
I think evil has gotten a bad rap. Evil is almost always good for someone.
How do you know God is the one who brought good out of it, or that it just came about that way? He is said to have created a being (Satan) who turned evil,and allowed this being to continue to exist, and even though He knew this evil being would cause the eternal death of some of his lesser creatures He still allows it, and even played games with this being over a man named Lot! It just doesn’t make sense to me, if a good human father did this to his children he would be put in jail. In a sense then God created evil and it is His fault that evil exists. He could have just wished Satan and his cohorts in to non-existence!But He punishes an ignorant human for disobeying Him and all his decendents? Sorry, but that doesn’t add up!
What was the good that came out of Joshua killing all the babys, small childeren, and innocent children,and others, that God was supposed to have created. Was the good that God brought out of it the fact that the Israelites now owned the town? I wonder about that kind of “Good”! Why didn’t God love the people of Jericho?
I am impressed. This is exactly what I was going to say as a Christian. Heck, it’s flat out Scriptural: “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1-2, NIV)
As far as I can tell, the stuff about whether God is good or not is really not on topic. Under the hypothetical set up by the OP, we have to assume that Christianity is true. This also means accepting the biblical account, whether you think it is accurate or not. This is therefore the obvious counterargument.
(I also realize that Skammer is making the same argument, but its lack of brevity is apparently causing confusion.)
Objectively speaking, I don’t. But the OP is asking the question from the perspective of Catholic faith and so that is how I am answering. By faith, that is what I believe.
I think you mean Job, not Lot. Again, the question of why God allows evil to exist is an interesting one that has been argued about for millenia – since well before Jesus’ time. That’s not the problem I was addressing.
First of all, I don’t know what good came out of the battle of Jericho other than Isreal now owned the city as promised.
I’m not arguing that evil always results in good for everyone (what good did the Holocaust do the Jews?). My point is that even if good comes from evil, as it often but not always does, it doesn’t make the evil okay. You seem to agree with me.
Yes, I did mean Job, I was thinking of God killing a whole lot of innocent babies, young children, mentally challenged etc. and not asking Lot to take them with his family. The idea that the writers of the OT and NT, seem to portray God as a cruel,egotistic being. This same God should have known this would happen before he created them, or allowed them to be born,He must have wanted evil to exist, and why He would be afraid that Satan was trying to over power Him makes no sense to me. Since Satan and his cohorts were not tempted but chose to rebel, doen’t say much for the perfection of Angels. I have often wondered if Angels were just a thought of God or what substance they were created from. Humans were made of clay,but angels have no substance!
Why didn’t God make evil even possible? Does he like to play games?
It does seem inescapable that evil and suffering exists; and God, having the power to stop it, allows it to continue. Christians have no good explanation for this other than we are incapable of understanding God’s purpose. I don’t have a better answer for you.
They don’t, along with everyone else, because no gods exist.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
Any other answer is irrational.
You’re talking to the wrong Christians.
That’s one opinion, but I don’t share it.
You’re not bringing anything new – I said above, the question predates Jesus by centuries. There are several traditional religious responses. You don’t find the answers compelling. Believers don’t find the apparent paradox troubling. Nothing can be gained by rehashing it here, again and again.
No, I don’t think I am. When I said Christians don’t have a “good” explanation for evil, I meant in the sense that will convince anyone like Naxos. I find them sufficient, if not always entirely satisfactory.
Neither would a schizophrenic.
That’s why religion is a mental disorder. It doesn’t render the believer incapable of functioning in society, although there are ample examples when it does, but the insistence of a person to dismiss reality in favor of their fantasies and imaginations is a standard indicator of mental instability.
Your perception of reality is your own, your credentials for diagnosing mental disorders have not been established, and I’m not going to further the hijack by arguing about the Problem of Evil. I’ve responded to the OP concerning the topic at hand.
Reality is independent of me, you, him, her, and every human being that ever or will ever live.
It’s very difficult to dismiss one’s ego when considering questions regarding reality, I know, but unless you do this, all fantasies you come up with when trying to explain the world around you, will probably hurt others rather than having a neutral or beneficial effect on society.
Nonsense. People have a piece of shaping reality. We have changed the face of the earth. We have changed the face of the moon – a little bit. We are changing the world’s climate. Individuals have also made changes to the reality of millions of people’s lives.
Most of us, myself included, have minuscule control over reality. But to the extent we have choices to make about actions we take, we are influencing reality. At this moment I am lying on my couch typing on my laptop. If I choose to move to my desk, I will alter physical reality.
So the gods were just waiting around during the 50 million years of the Triassic period… waiting for the eventual evolution of human beings so they can conceive of the idea of the gods’ existence?
Schizophrenics are more consistent than this.
Hey, I’m an atheist. You made no reference to a god in the comment I was responding to, and my reply stands with or without gods. Preferably without.