If that was the case then He might have been the most stubborn person ever born. Though it would be odd that His stubbornness manifested during times of excruciating torture and not His day to day living.
Jesus clearly stated that He was God, the Jews even charged Him with this crime, blasphemy. So, going back to the L-L-L argument, He was either crazy or a liar if He was not God. History point that He was neither, thus my only conclusion is Lord.
I suggest we move back to the homosexuality topic, I am not trying to debate anyone into believing in Christ, though I wish I could.
Tradition for most. The “ick” factor for some. But also still for many: Scripture. It is my impression that many of the faithful do not interpret the Bible for themselves but rather follow an interpretation that is handed out to them within their congregation.
So they do not intentionally leave out some of the laws while following others. They follow what they have been taught to consider as important or relevant.
I think it is a misunderstanding when Christians say “I follow the Bible”, when in truth they are following an interpretation of it. But bigotry? I don’t know.
That is what is known as a straw man argument in which you pretend that your opponent has said something and then “prove” that the statement is wrong when your opponent has said no such thing. You are better off avoiding such bad logic in this forum.
As to lowering standards: I would say that we have raised them. Rules against homosexuality were the harsh logic of a pastoral society, (in which procreation through a single method was a necessity to preserve society). Rather than imposing that logic onto a society in which procreation has become something that may be chosen or rejected both within and without sexual relations, we accept that humans may demonstrate love in various ways, choosing or not choosing to create a next generation to demonstrate their love.
That seems to be a higher standard to me, in that it does not require procreation to demonstrate love or compel the procreation of unloved children.
I was going to answer to that, but I realized that we are about to derail Learjeff’s thread (again).
Abortion is a difficult topic. But if you want to have a debate about it, open a thread. I’ll try to offer my five cents.
First, if you can demonstrate the existence of any god, please do so. Then you can demonstrate that this god has anything to do with your Bible. Then you can talk to the many Christians and Jews who support SSM. Including ministers who are better theologically trained than you are.
My sense of what is right and acceptable tells me that gay marriage is right. Have you ever met any gay people (especially ones not self-hating?) Have you seen them love one another?
Why are you against true love?
We don’t know enough about the real Jesus to know if it is liar, lunatic, or misquoted. You realize that for the most part the people around Jerusalem at the time didn’t seem to buy Jesus at all, and that Christians succeeded far better in converting those far from the scene.
After all, Jesus did not fulfill the actual Messianic prophecies. Except one that got created from a mistranslation (virgin birth.) They retconned him into being born in Bethlehem, and the prophecies did not say the Messiah was going to get caught and killed right after hitting the big time.
As for him returning - I expect to see the Last Dangerous Visions before Jesus.
Voice isn’t a requirement, but breathing air is. Your Bible tells you that Adam, even though he had a fully formed adult body, became a living soul only after he began breathing.
As for the “Lord, Liar, or Lunatic” question, the obvious answer is, “Legend.” Jesus left no writings. All we know (with very minor exceptions, and certainly regarding what he allegedly said) is what his worshippers wrote about him. You know who else got very good press from his devoted followers?
My personal favorite is still the bit where Mary says she’s a virgin pregnant with the Son of God, and Joseph – reacts with skepticism and thoughts of divorce. But then he winds up doing an about-face and believing her, because an angel tells him so.
Which makes sense, right?
What makes Joseph’s tale weird is that an angel tells him what’s what in a dream, and he promptly reacts as if he’d been visited by an angel in real life. So the only way his story makes sense is if folks back then thought well, yeah; if an angel visits you in a dream, that’s totally just as convincing as an angel visiting you in real life.
Joseph supposedly had a dream where an angel said JESUS IS LORD; we’re told how he reacted. If Jesus had a dream where an angel said JESUS IS LORD – well, he wouldn’t be a Lunatic for believing it; folks back then believed angels who said stuff in dreams. So he wouldn’t be a Liar for saying it, because he’d honestly believe it. But that wouldn’t mean he’s the Lord; it’d mean he had a dream, and reacted like Joseph did.
According to the Bible, folks back then had some weeeeeeeird beliefs about dreams.
So when you know something, you know it, but when someone else claims to know something that disagrees with you, it’s the Devil misleading them. Right.
How can you know for sure that you are not the one being deceived?
I have to be honest with you here- this post of yours makes even me feel uncomfortable and I am a believer in Christ as Lord and Savior too. We ALL do morally wrong things, don’t we? That is why people like you and I believe in Christ’s atonement at Calvary.
I’m sure there are more people who commit the crime of fornication, stealing, lying, greed, pride, and covetousness than homosexuality. How come there isn’t a movement to rid society of these sins? Do you get my point? People are throwing rocks at people because of the sins they see them committing (homosexuality) while secretly hanging on to their own, which may be far worse.
Is that too just the devil playing on “specifically your” ignorance for committing all those sins I mentioned above?
