So because lawyers prosecute people, they are responsible for the swollen prison population? Okie dokie.
Please, forget I dropped into this little thread. Best of luck.
Err…huh?
When I said, “Lawyers are not responsible” how do you get “they are responsible”?
I am merely noting the size and scope of the issue. We are not talking about a handful of people here. Lawyers are not responsible for who the police arrest but lawyers have to deal with who the police arrest.
Unfortunately PDs are critically under resourced and even prosecutors now seem to be under resourced to the point that they can’t do their jobs so are refusing to prosecute or represent certain cases (all noted in cites above). They are quite literally overwhelmed. Justice is where in all this?
I did note that more effective (better funded/resourced) PDs might lower the prison population some but why would anyone argue against that? That is a good thing.
You noticed that too? But it really has been going on the whole thread with multiple posters. I kinda thought it was a Pit trademark or something.
Then what the fuck are you two bozos posting about?
You’ve gone from “all lawyers are scum, and the OP pitting me for hating all lawyers because I am an idiot is bullshit” to “public defenders are underpaid/underbudgeted”.
Secondly, prison overpopulation is due to stupid things like mandatory minimums for a little weed and good detection, not because a significant portion of people represented by P.D.s are innocent. Furthermore, most people who are facing actual, significant prison time (as opposed to being one of Sheriff Joe’s bitches for a few months), are going to get the majority of the work done by P.D.s, and it’s highly unlikely that most of these people are innocent, or even that they should be out on the street.
Let’s grant you your arguments that the system has flaws (as we’ve been doing all along). What either of you have conspicuously failed to do is provide a link between
- our system isn’t perfect
and - therefore lawyers are scum and I’m really not a moron.
(A link other than “OMGS THAT ONE DUDE THAT GOT DISBARRED!! SOMEHITNG ABOUT LACROSS!!”, because that unfortunately isn’t evidence, any more than it’s ok to say all black people are criminals because of that one guy who killed Nicole Simpson)
Finally, you are both just as scummy as anyone else, given that you see this injustice and you have as much opportunity to correct it as anyone else.
Look, if you want me to talk to your mommy for you and explain to her that your corprophilia requires treatment, I will. But you cannot just go around making things up about other people. I never said “all lawyers are scum” and if that is what you got out of it, I am sorry. I said lawyers in general are scum and there are exceptions. That is not all. As for your contention that I referred to someone else’s discussion on public defenders being underbudgeted (I know they are not underpaid) that may be the case in individual cases, but it isn’t anything I took on. The adults are talking here, and just because you are allowed to be present doesn’t make your trolling acceptable. You are a very bad whatever you are. Go get your mommy.
I absolutely adore that you think this distinction makes your views perfectly reasonable.
Before law school, when I was working as a legal assistant, one of my duties was to catalogue case correspondence. I came upon a remonstrance from opposing counsel sent to the judge and copied to us complaining that the attorney at my firm had called him a prick.
The next letter in the stack was, in due course, a letter from that attorney to the judge and copying opposing counsel taking pains to point out: “I did not call [opposing counsel] a ‘prick,’ I asked him, ‘Are you going to act like a prick or are you going to produce the documents?’.”
Got off track responding to nitpicky bullshit.
You are still an idiot though.
Then I am sure if you ever found yourself accused of a serious crime you are innocent of and only able to use a PD to defend you that you will content yourself that at least most people in the system are guilty as you rot in prison.
Personally I am not cool with that…even for the likes of you.
Be honest…if you were accused of a serious crime that you did not commit (or hell…a crime you did commit, take your pick) would you be happy with the defense you would likely receive from a Public Defender? Even a good and committed Public Defender but lacked substantial resources for your defense?
Lawyers often exploit these imperfections or tolerate them then sleep well that they were only doing their job and justice was served, the country is a better place because of them.
Glad you think I have as much influence on the Bar Associations as you do.
I also do not work in that system and pretend all is well and then bitch that people do not like me because the system I represent actually is miserably out-of-whack.
Curious about this.
Is it because you think PDs suck and are barely worthy of a job in general or because you think the job actually merits less pay than their prosecutor counterpart?
(Assume apples to apples so if you are the PD defending crack heads for minor possession then the prosecutor tasked with prosecuting crack heads for minor possession.)
I know public defenders. They aren’t underpaid. They are overworked, but that is a different matter. They are on the civil service schedule like other civil service lawyers.
I don’t think that that distinction makes my views perfectly reasonable, it is a distinction that I make if someone asks me a question on that point. I am unable to share in your adoration, as I am uninterested in whether you or anyone else thinks my views are perfectly reasonable. Nor do I care that you presumably loves you some lawyers. Somebody has to love John Woo and Antonin Scalia.
Huh…would make sense.
Perhaps I am conflating stories where there is no PD office and the courts assign some attorney to take the case and they note the poor compensation they get for that and/or lack of payments to cover overhead and so on.
I thought in all the talk of the ABA calling for parity in salaries and other discussion on this topic that the PDs were behind the ball on this measure.
Too tired now to look it all up again…will look in to it tomorrow.
Well, both of you fuckwits have posted about 200 times each in this thread, and the sheer volume of your posts in opposition to my OP that you are, in fact, a pair of dipshits who can’t think their way out of a wet toilet paper sack would seem to indicate either:
A) you just happened to be misdirected into this thread thinking it was about PDs, or
B) you actually give a shit that I, and apparently a bunch of other people, all think that you are, in fact, unreasonable mouthbreathers who don’t have a clue.
Eagerly awaiting your reply of “No you!”.
a) I never thought this was a thread about PDs, which is slightly off-topic. It is a thread denouncing people with my opinion. I got that.
b) I don’t care what that you despise people who do not like lawyers, I’m just not going to let you say it unanswered. And as for who gets the last word in, I suppose you could arrange for a mod to lock the thread, but otherwise, I can keep on posting until I drop dead. Lawyers and the legal system are a disappointment and getting worse all the time. But there is hope. Perhaps Eric Holder will investigate and indict the lawyers who fig-leafed torture with Themis’ cloak.
Well, about the thinking bit and to be fair, the only thing I cannot think my way out of is finding where you might have posted anything resembling a coherent argument in 200+ posts. Hell, even your OP is a rambling mess. How you ever got out of Junior High much less became an attorney (if indeed you are one) is some kind of miracle. Your OP is an indictment on your profession all by itself.
A) Got derailed by nitpickers so was defended. If they had something more relevant to say it’d have been addressed.
B) Going to have to ask for a cite on this one. Not seeing it at all.
There’s an old saw that if you can wonder whether you’re crazy, then you aren’t. I wonder if the converse holds true too?
I suppose I am amused and bemused that your response to “You are a cretin.” (I paraphrase) was to tag it as “citation needed.”
How do you people ever get out of school?
READ what he posted (bolding mine):
“you actually give a shit that I, and apparently a bunch of other people, all think that you are, in fact, unreasonable mouthbreathers who don’t have a clue.”
The “you” was directed at me.
I want a cite from this thread that I “give a shit” what he or others in this thread think about me.
Fucking morons trying to be clever…get a clue. :rolleyes:
Smooches!
Shrillness and verbosity are no substitute for evidence. Indeed, may I suggest adding them in some way to the categories in the OP.
In the real world, a conclusion of the sort advanced by the Demon Duo to the effect that a large, public and essential institution like the legal profession is hopelessly and utterly flawed (as opposed to merely suffering from inevitable imperfections) and that the vast majority of its practitioners are morally bankrupt sounds a little - whacky. The evidence required to establish this would look like a vast multi-volume, detailed statistical analysis, not a couple of cites of anecdotes from which extravagant generalisations are drawn.
This, by the way, is not a clarion call to complacency, just to perspective. In the US there must be hundreds of thousands of pieces of litigation brought each year. In those circumstances, tens or dozens or even hundreds of anecdotes don’t mean much along the way to the grand conclusions advanced by Mole and Stone.
It is worth pointing out that in all that litigation, the wealthy don’t always get their way, from Martha Stewart to Madoff via the Enron guys and Lord Black. And there is no point in asserting that these cases are mere rule-proving exceptions unless you grind out the numbers.
I understand the OP’s lament. In truth, lawyers have been bashed unfairly since time began because of the unique functions we perform and the odd fear that some people hold that there is strange dark magic in what we do. We are stuck with this, and the only honourable response to it is to try to use it as a goad to do right as best we can.
I actually work in the NY equivalent of a Public Defender’s Office - a Legal Aid office which is a hybrid private charity/public servant. I am not an attorney myself (yet).
I would take the attorneys in that office against ANY criminal defense attorney in the county. They believe in their jobs, they are highly creative thinkers, and are tenacious like Jack Russell Terriers on crack.
BTW, the attorneys are unionized with excellent benefits, and getting a job there is very, very competitive. The pay is comparable to the DAs office - there are slight differences in the structure of compensation but in the end it’s a wash.