I never said that all would be wonderful; I think I said that shaming them is probably not going to be that effective in getting them to change their minds about vaccinations - listening to them and having a reasonable discussion might.
I’m not against doing more to force vaccinations and I also believe that it’s particularly important to expose and fight misinformation online, which isn’t easy given the platforms that are available to spread it.
Speaking as a parent of an autistic daughter, I do not believe for one second it was caused by vaccinations.
So, antivaxers get their info from “bullshit platforms” (true) and are simultaneously "well-read? Not so.
Antivaxers are basically proselytizers who vehemently oppose vaccines in general, ignore excellent evidence that they’re wrong, and attack pro-immunization advocates as shills/evil. They are not reachable however sweet and reasonable one’s tone is. It’s a waste of time.
Worried, “vaccine-hesitant” parents may well be influenced by polite educational effort. There’s no shortage of knowledgeable folks and sites constantly working on that.
Overlooking that diligent and respectful work to zero in on a relatively few vitriolic comments targeting hardcore antivaxers misses the point, and in my view is a form of tone trolling.
It would be fun to listen to asahi having a “reasonable discussion” with this guy. 
Which brings up the question I asked in post #520:
I’d probably start by listening…and probably end up laughing my ass off.
Obviously, not everyone can be persuaded. I understand there are differences in degree and that people who have their own websites dedicated to this shit are unreachable (at least for the moment). I’m just thinking about the people I come into contact who refuse vaccinations, and there are money. I’d rather not be paternalistic with them and simply try to find out what their hangups are and start from there.
I don’t know, I just know that being a condescending ass doesn’t persuade people - and I’m an expert when it comes to being a condescending ass, so I know my stuff.
Look what Google’s Youtube is doing:
Asahi, I have to disagree that most anti-vaxxers get that way because they had a bad experience. Plenty of people have had bad experiences, and it hasn’t made them anti-vaxx. What anti-vaxxers DO have in common, in my experience, is the sort of paranoia that fuels conspiracy theories and the circular reasoning that protects them from having to consider logic and evidence, however gently presented.
I’m never condescending with anti-vaxxers. And I do listen. But as soon as I present evidence, I’m dismissed as someone who’s been duped by Big Pharma, citing studies secretly funded by Big Pharma. The reason they’re impossible to persuade is that anti-vaxx is merely one part of their whole world view.
I have a question to throw into the mix. What about religious exemptions? Anti-vaxxers have gotten out of vaccination requirements for school attendance by (falsely) claiming it violated their religious convictions.
It seems to me your right to practice your religion (actual or claimed) freely ends where endangering others begins.
And there are some people who spend a lot of time on twitter doing exactly that. And get a lot of hate from the anti-vaxxers.
If you give them information, you know what you hear back? It is a plot by big Pharma. That vaccine researchers are in it for the money. And they hate, hate, hate the CDC.
There are a lot of scare tactics and misinterpretation of data. Mercury in fish is bad for you. The mercury that used to be in many vaccines is a different type which does not get absorbed by the body. You can tell them this until you are blue in the face and it doesn’t work.
I think the best way is to recite their arguments (which means you have to understand them) to get them to think you are on their side - and then demolish them step by step.
Alas, I think giving the deaths from illnesses that can be prevented by vaccines is a good way also. They have no idea about these numbers, since none of their well to do friends have had children die of the measles.
Next time you talk to an anti-vaxxer, ask them how many people died from measles in 2017. I bet their answer will be dozens at most.
You can also tell them that the mercury was removed, and that only “proves” that it was a problem. The fact that there has been no change in autism rates with the removal of the mercury, and the fact that they are still against the vaccine even though it does not contain the thing that they were terrified of, just goes to show that their arguments are not based on any sort of reason or rationale.
then theres this shit MSN
So when kids and babies die like its 1895 and adults are getting polio again in 10 or 15 years (or less) maybe we’ll wake up again
Id move to a new place and then convince everyone else to do so also
At least one of us has misunderstood the story in your link.
Let me know when you have an alternative that works better, okey dokey?
Why don’t you go peddle your nicey nicey crap over at any of the many websites and forums dedicated to spreading their death notes and see how far you get before you are banned, because the only message accepted at the places where they gather is the message they collectively push. While you are avoiding confrontation men, women and children are dying by the thousands, and the time for compromise is long fucking over. Make what they do illegal, and get those poor children vaccinated now.
Yes, if asahi thinks the anti-vaxxers are just looking for someone who will engage them in polite and respectful debate, why not go do it. That would seem to make rather more sense than tone policing us.
I know of no major religion that forbids vaccination - actually, they encourage it.
Antivaxers like to harp on “aborted fetal tissues” supposedly being in vaccines (they aren’t, but some vaccines are prepared by growing pathogens in cell cultures derived decades ago from tissue obtained via abortions). The Catholic Church would rather this process wasn’t used, but has made clear that since protecting children from dangerous infectious diseases is important, vaccines manufactured this way are acceptable.
As a recent Charlotte Observer editorial points out, the religious exemption clause has been abused by parents wanting to keep their children from being immunized.
*"…the number of N.C. families declaring religious exemptions has continued to rise. Not coincidentally, our state has endured chicken pox outbreaks in 2016, 2017 and 2018, including one last November that afflicted 36 students at an Asheville school with a high concentration of vaccine exemptions. Now, with a measles outbreak raging along the border of Washington State and Oregon — plus 200 cases confirmed in New York since October — lawmakers here have more reminders of the potential cost of inaction.
It’s time to get tougher about vaccinations in North Carolina and elsewhere, not only by eliminating the religious exemption loophole, but by taking additional steps to make sure parents don’t game exemption laws and rules…Like many states, North Carolina allows exemptions for medical reasons and religious beliefs. The medical exemption needs to be signed by a doctor, but the religious exemption requires only the name and date of birth for whom the request is being made. No explanation of the religious objection — or even evidence of religious affiliation or faith — is required.
That loophole should be eliminated. Most major mainstream religions — including all Christian denominations — have no prohibition on vaccinations, and many advocate for immunization, according to a study in the medical journal, Vaccine. The Amish, long rumored to forbid vaccinations, have no such prohibition, and Jehovah’s Witnesses have softened their stance on immunizations and now allow them.
Objections to vaccinations also are not based on science, which has regularly and thoroughly debunked the notion that vaccines are unsafe. Despite that, anti-vaxxers stubbornly shake their head, fueled by an internet-based patchwork of falsehoods and suppositions. Their recklessness not only endangers children who have legitimate medical exemptions, but adults who have vulnerable immune systems because of chemotherapy and other treatments."*
YouTube is demonetizing anti-vax videos. Good for them.
“Vaccine hesitancy” is as much a bullshit term as “inteligent design”. The parents are not hesitant; they are anti-vaxxers.