Very true, and one more reason I believe stupidity should be painful.
Well, lots of adults suck anyway 
I certainly don’t disagree with that statement. For different, arguably less insane reasons.
Ben Goldacre:
The latest trends in vax/anti-vax…While the Pacific Northwest is moving towards mandatory vaccination for school kids, Arizona seems to be doing the opposite.
Where have we heard “balance” and “both sides” before? Oh, yes, “teach the controversy” about evolution. And Republicans.
The latest news from Vancouver, BC which is unrelated to the WA state/ Oregon outbreak.
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/vancouver-outbreak-of-measles-may-have-spread-to-edmonton
Many of the outbreaks in and around Vancouver/Lower mainland have been associated with the anti-vaxxers in the Fraser Valley, fundamentalist, homeschool bible belt. Now this shit is in the city. Patient zero or the sibling of is at a French-language high school in my neighbourhood, one is at another French language school in the city. There was exposure at BC Children’s hospital. People taking public transit and going to Alberta and then the North West Territories.
I’m freaking livid.
I’m ok, vaccinated (and born just barely before the January 1st 1970 cut off— the theory is those of us born before that either had it or were exposed in early childhood and are immune) My son is vaccinated. I deal with foreign students all the time, they have to get their vaccinations before they do clinical placements. All the vaccinations, including the MMR, (Measles, Mumps and Rubella) and the DPPT and their Hepatitis B etc. Also, the flu vaccine is mandatory for clinical placements in the winter (North American winter/flu season)
For hospital staff, the Flu Vaccine is not mandatory but if they chose not to they have to wear face masks from November 1st to April 1st. This confuses some of my students who think, why can’t I just wear a mask? One or two students have wondered if this is some kind of anti immigrant thing directed at them. I’m tired of explaining it all, I’m tired of explaining that people who can get a shot for free choose not to, but they have to.
I’m sick of all of this. My grandparents somehow kept 10 kids alive through adulthood, in a city that had some severe polio outbreaks in the 40s and 50s. Money was tight and this was before universal health care in Canada. My mom and her sisters always got their vaccines even if it meant my grandparents had holes in their shoes. No one ever used to think doctors were just in it for money. No one ever mistook a celebrity mouthing off his or her opinions for scientific fact. My dad had years where he wasn’t allowed to go swimming or to movie theatres because of polio. My mom knew kids with polio. Kids who died of measles. This was only 60 years ago.
My son’s best friend’s dad is an anti-vaxxer now, although my son’s friend had all his injections as a baby. Just no recent updates, including his tetanus shot. My son is fed up with the disinformation going around and has said: “Hey Billy there’s a rusty nail, don’t go near it, since your Dad won’t get you vaccinated!”
Speaking of Vancouver:
Then I hope you’ll avoid antibiotics if you become septic, clot-busting drugs if you have a stroke, insulin if diabetic etc.
Because you don’t want to support “organized crime”.
Hey, when the mooks in suits roll into my home saying what a nice place I have and wouldn’t it just be a shame if something were to, yanno, happen to it, I’m for sure gonna pay the fuckers.
Interesting that you mention insulin, though. The idea that “big pharma” is a racket is not new, and amply borne out by the evidence…and is not contradicted by the indisputable benefits they provide.
Yup, the term “racket” and the notion of “an offer you can’t refuse” are more than just hyperbolic analogies: you need insulin, nobody else has it, you must pay our cartel’s inflated price or you will die. Very recent update on a class action:
Go ahead and rant all you want about drug companies being “organized crime”.
That rhetoric plays into the hands of people like this guy.
Wow, that is some bizarre website.
I do have my complaints against “Big Pharma.” They are in it to make money, and want everyone to be on several types of “medications.” But not as bad of that guy.
Rant? No.
But I’m curious how you would choose to describe the Sacklers. Just some nice helpful folks trying to do the right thing? Because the evidence increasingly points to their being quite reasonably described as an organized criminal enterprise.
How much is it necessary to cushion criticism of pharmaceutical companies because conspiracy theorists overdo it by three or four orders of magnitude? Failing to vaccinate children is (in the overwhelming majority of cases) monstrous, but so is jacking up the price of necessary treatments. Particularly relatively ancient, generic ones. (Like the $220 price tag I recently faced for a tricylcic antidepressant from the goddamn sixties. Reduced to $100 with a change in pharmacy and a coupon, but still.)
It’s quite possible to criticize drug companies which employ pricing practices that could reasonably be characterized as gouging or predatory. Ones that conceal or downplay negative research findings can be blasted as dishonest.
However, using insane rhetoric puts you in the same class as insane people.
Don’t want to be associated with Alex Jones and Mike Adams? Don’t sound like them.
“Aw, I don’t have to take this abuse from you, I’ve got hundreds of people dying to abuse me.”
I’m an antifascist, anticapitalist, open-borders, socialist psychotherapist.
I easily classify as insane for most people.
(Honestly, I get your point Jackmanii. I just feel that the potential harm (reinforcing the anti-vax crazy) of my calling it as I see it is terribly small and well-offset in the broad sense by my own actions and advocacy. Holding companies like Purdue responsible for the very real and very severe damage they have caused in pursuit of profit would truly be a net benefit to the US and the world. I really want to see that happen.)
I don’t agree, I don’t think downplaying or excusing the fact that Big Pharma does sometimes behave badly is an appropriate way to oppose anti-vaxxers. Anti-vaxxers are wrong because a massive amount of scientific evidence shows that they are wrong, not because we should all trust profit-driven corporations to behave well.
And who has done that here?
As a further example: certain elected politicians, have, um, behaved badly. We can certainly point that out using appropriately vociferous language. On the other hand, raving about them being Fascist dictators, Lizard People or Demonic Extraterrestrials Out To Depopulate The Earth muddies the message just a tad. :dubious:
I like to think there’s a marked difference between the Straight Dope and whale.to*, but maybe that’s not entirely true.
*if you go there and need to order gallons of brain bleach, don’t say I didn’t warn you.
What other interpretation of your post #590 would you expect other than an admonition to downplay the wrongdoing of drug companies?
The actual court case that I linked to explicitly accused them of racketeering. I don’t think that comparing insulin price fixing to organized crime is excessively hyperbolic, and I don’t think tone policing it is relevant to our evidence-based opposition to anti-vaxxers.
ETA: in fact, I’d go further, and say that I think explicitly conceding the fact that drug companies behave badly may be a good way to discuss vaccination with hesitant parents, viz.