Any Advice for a Windows User Who's Ready to Make the Switch to Apple?

Factual Questions
41

[QUOTE=AHunter3]
It is no longer true that there is nothing “quite like Access” for the MacOS. OpenOffice and NeoOffice (the Java incarnation of same) for MacOS both now sport “Base”, the database module which is an open-source clone of Access, can open and edit Access files, etc.

Disclaimer: I am not an Access user and cannot state from useful experience that every single function available in Access works just fine in Base, or that all visual components render the same way, etc

Your overall point, however, is still well-taken.
[/QUOTE]

There are any number of database programs that will let you create, edit and query tables, what -AFAIK- is unique (not best, just distinctive) about access is the VBA integration - the user can create forms and highly functional applications inside the database (I created an entire stock and sales system in Access VBA once).
There are plenty of other (and doubtless better) ways of doing this, but if you’re migrating from Windows with a collection of mature Access applications, you can’t really take them anywhere except another Windows PC with Access installed - you’ll get the data over into other apps, but not the forms and code.

42

[QUOTE=Mangetout]
There are plenty of other (and doubtless better) ways of doing this, but if you’re migrating from Windows with a collection of mature Access applications, you can’t really take them anywhere except another Windows PC with Access installed - you’ll get the data over into other apps, but not the forms and code.
[/QUOTE]

This was always the biggest bummer of being on the Mac platform. Not having MS Access. That’s why I held on to Virtual PC for so long. As it is now, I don’t even bother installing my legal copy of Office into Parallels, since the only thing missing on the Mac side is Access, and I’ve learned to live without it.

What I do instead is use mySQL (other free RDMS’s are available, too), and do everything web-based, which seems to be the wave of the future (or even the present). Desktop applications have their place, but Access and FileMaker never, ever, produced true desktop applications anyway, and I always discard them wholesale whenever I download an “app” that is really based on one of these. That’s not to say they don’t make good corporate databases, but at that point you really want to be web-based anyway.

Sometimes I cheat – I love Access’s query builder, which is great for all kinds of complicated joins. Switch to SQL mode, copy, and paste into my mySQL query. Most of the time it works, and if you know generic SQL, you can fix the odd things yourself. (Actually, anyone know of an Access-style visual query builder for the Mac? If it works with mySQL, perfect, but even if it’s only ODBC, that’s cool, too).

Of course I don’t offer that as a solution for migrating to the Mac from Windows – that’s just how I decided not to bother with Access anymore. It’s probably just good advice per se.

43

I agree - Access applications often seem to generally be homebrewed solutions to small data handling tasks that just kept on growing until they became business critical - it’s not a good way to be, but I think it’s probably quite common in small companies.

And yes, I do the same as you - use the visual query builder to rough out the skeleton, then paste it somewhere else - I find it particularly good for complex criteria like (((a AND B) or (b AND c)) AND (x or y)). I don’t know of any decent alternative, but they must be out there. The one that comes with Visual dBase (also for the PC) looks similar, but sucks (as does the Borland Database Engine’s implementation of SQL, generally)

44

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]

When it comes to Linux, a lot of people aren’t being forthright with you. Linux is an acceptable alternative, as long as the distribution you have anticipates all of your needs from the get-go.

Want to run multiple displays on linux? Here’s what you’ll end up doing:
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6020/2/

It’s a multi-page tutorial. What would it be for OSX? Most likely,

  1. Plug in extra monitor
  2. enjoy
    [/quote]

Again, it depends on the hardware you have. nVidia has a nice little graphical program to configure your display. A couple clicks and you have your displays configured exactly as you want it.

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]

This is the problem with Linux. You will get along fine if you don’t mind having little bits and pieces taken out of your computing experience. Trivial things can become immensely difficult under linux. Granted it’s getting better, but wireless networking was still a PITA last time I checked.

All of these linux guys really love to hype it up, but the truth is that it needs some work. There are just too many times I’ve tried it where I though, that’s it, I don’t feel the need to have to work, to get an environment no better than OSX.
[/quote]

There are a great deal of advantages of Ubuntu/Linux over OS X. OS X/Apple doesn’t have the package manager that Ubuntu does. Say I don’t like the default e-mail client. I open up the package manager, type in mail to the search, and it finds 4 other e-mail clients I can install with one click. Same thing with internet browser, mp3 player, or whatever.

Customizability. If you don’t like how something is in OS X you’re pretty much stuck. With Ubuntu you can make it look or act however you want it to. Want docks? You can have docks. Want a taskbar on the bottom and start menu on the top. You got it. Want a combined taskbar/start menu? No problem. Want no menus at all? No problem.

Free. Two years down the road Apple and Ubuntu come out with new OS’s. Apple: That’ll be 130 dollars please. Ubuntu: Please use our bandwidth gratis to download the new OS, or let us send you a free copy on a CD. Four years down the road and another OS. Apple: That’ll be 130 dollars please. Ubuntu: Here you go!

45

[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze]
I got a Mac for Christmas and I lament the fact daily. I just cannot adjust. It’s driving me crazy. I think of all the time I spent lambasting Microsoft and Word…I take it back! I take it back!
[/QUOTE]
You can install Windows XP or Vista on the latest Intel-based Macs if you absolutely have to. :slight_smile: I’ve run into a couple of government websites that demanded IE on Windows or nothing. I may have to break down and buy a copy of XP again…

46

I don’t want to keep banging on about Linux, but I was one of those users who kept installing some distribution of linux, thinking ‘this is it! - no more Windows for me’ - only to hit some insurmountable hardware compatibility problem, or failure to install some bit of software due to incomprehensible instructions, then wiped it and reinstalled Windows.

Except that Ubuntu changed that. I still have to use Windows at work for some things, but Ubuntu is now the default boot option on my multi-partition machint at home, and I’ve set up several desktops at work with it quite successfully.

47

[QUOTE=treis]
Free. Two years down the road Apple and Ubuntu come out with new OS’s. Apple: That’ll be 130 dollars please. Ubuntu: Please use our bandwidth gratis to download the new OS, or let us send you a free copy on a CD. Four years down the road and another OS. Apple: That’ll be 130 dollars please. Ubuntu: Here you go!
[/QUOTE]

I know it was there the last time I visited ubuntu.com, but for the life of me I can’t find the PPC version now. The download page is only giving me a choice of:

• Standard personal computer (x86 architecture, PentiumTM, CeleronTM, AthlonTM, SempronTM)

• 64bit AMD and Intel computers

• Sun UltraSPARC based

48

[QUOTE=treis]
There are a great deal of advantages of Ubuntu/Linux over OS X. OS X/Apple doesn’t have the package manager that Ubuntu does. Say I don’t like the default e-mail client. I open up the package manager, type in mail to the search, and it finds 4 other e-mail clients I can install with one click. Same thing with internet browser, mp3 player, or whatever.

Customizability. If you don’t like how something is in OS X you’re pretty much stuck. With Ubuntu you can make it look or act however you want it to. Want docks? You can have docks. Want a taskbar on the bottom and start menu on the top. You got it. Want a combined taskbar/start menu? No problem. Want no menus at all? No problem.
[/QUOTE]

Okay, I’m an ignorant user. I don’t know what a dock is, nor why I’d want one. What are the steps I take to install one (granted, there are other situations on the Mac where you might not know you want something)??

I haven’t tried Ubuntu, but on every other Linux distro (every one) you only get the stable package tree, and those are only “officially supported” packages. You want something else, you have to start editing source lists, but you have to know that you can do so in the first place. You want the most recent version? You have to add the unstable trees. FWIW, you can do the same thing on the Mac with FINK, so we’re pretty much in the same boat, with the same limitations (approved apps, stable or not, and so on). Plus, on the Mac, we have Google, VersionTracker, and MacUpdate. Hell, unless you’re using FINK, you don’t even have to worry about dependency hell, as applications are self contained, and there’s an awesome library management scheme that’s in Mac OS X that automatically manages infinite levels of different library versions, even for the same library.

I’m not trying to dig on Linux – as I said, it’s mission-critical at home. But I never have library or dependency problems on my Mac, whereas I’ve always got to be damned careful on my Linux box.

49

[QUOTE=Phase42]
I know it was there the last time I visited ubuntu.com, but for the life of me I can’t find the PPC version now. The download page is only giving me a choice of:

• Standard personal computer (x86 architecture, PentiumTM, CeleronTM, AthlonTM, SempronTM)

• 64bit AMD and Intel computers

• Sun UltraSPARC based
[/QUOTE]

http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/release/

It looks like PPC support is a community project now.

50

[QUOTE=Balthisar]
Okay, I’m an ignorant user. I don’t know what a dock is, nor why I’d want one. What are the steps I take to install one (granted, there are other situations on the Mac where you might not know you want something)??
[/quote]

The dock is the combined task bar/application launcher at the bottom of OS X.

[QUOTE=Balthisar]

I haven’t tried Ubuntu, but on every other Linux distro (every one) you only get the stable package tree, and those are only “officially supported” packages. You want something else, you have to start editing source lists, but you have to know that you can do so in the first place. You want the most recent version? You have to add the unstable trees. FWIW, you can do the same thing on the Mac with FINK, so we’re pretty much in the same boat, with the same limitations (approved apps, stable or not, and so on). Plus, on the Mac, we have Google, VersionTracker, and MacUpdate. Hell, unless you’re using FINK, you don’t even have to worry about dependency hell, as applications are self contained, and there’s an awesome library management scheme that’s in Mac OS X that automatically manages infinite levels of different library versions, even for the same library.

I’m not trying to dig on Linux – as I said, it’s mission-critical at home. But I never have library or dependency problems on my Mac, whereas I’ve always got to be damned careful on my Linux box.
[/QUOTE]

Damned careful of what? The point of package managers is that you don’t have to worry about library stuff.

51

[QUOTE=Balthisar]
Okay, I’m an ignorant user. I don’t know what a dock is, nor why I’d want one. What are the steps I take to install one (granted, there are other situations on the Mac where you might not know you want something)??
.
[/QUOTE]

The Dock is a field of icons on one border of the Mac screen. It is part of the OS and is turned on by default. There is a control panel available to customize it if you want to. To install software, anything from a full application to a simple text document, click and hold the icon of the file you wish to install and drag to the dock. The icon joins the list. That is all that is needed. To remove, simply dray the icon off the dock. It disappears. Since in fact these are links, the original file is unaffected by either operation.
The purpose is to keep frequently used files/apps immediately available to the user.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.

52

[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze]
I got a Mac for Christmas and I lament the fact daily. I just cannot adjust. It’s driving me crazy. I think of all the time I spent lambasting Microsoft and Word…I take it back! I take it back!

No viruses, though, there is that.
[/QUOTE]

Switching OSes isn’t for everyone. One critical thing most people tend to forget is that these machines don’t DO anything. They are tools to allow people to do things. If the tool doesn’t fit your “hand” it is the wrong tool. Nothing wrong with either the tool or the person. In Hilarity’s case, either install XP on the Mac or post it on ebay. Life is too short to continue with the wrong hammer.

53

[QUOTE=levdrakon]
Wuh? Who on Earth said you can’t play games on Macs.
[/QUOTE]

Where’s Bioshock? FAIL.

54

[QUOTE=treis]
Again, it depends on the hardware you have. nVidia has a nice little graphical program to configure your display. A couple clicks and you have your displays configured exactly as you want it.

There are a great deal of advantages of Ubuntu/Linux over OS X. OS X/Apple doesn’t have the package manager that Ubuntu does. Say I don’t like the default e-mail client. I open up the package manager, type in mail to the search, and it finds 4 other e-mail clients I can install with one click. Same thing with internet browser, mp3 player, or whatever.

Customizability. If you don’t like how something is in OS X you’re pretty much stuck. With Ubuntu you can make it look or act however you want it to. Want docks? You can have docks. Want a taskbar on the bottom and start menu on the top. You got it. Want a combined taskbar/start menu? No problem. Want no menus at all? No problem.

Free. Two years down the road Apple and Ubuntu come out with new OS’s. Apple: That’ll be 130 dollars please. Ubuntu: Please use our bandwidth gratis to download the new OS, or let us send you a free copy on a CD. Four years down the road and another OS. Apple: That’ll be 130 dollars please. Ubuntu: Here you go!
[/QUOTE]

That’s the point..

You get what you pay for…

Linux requires work, and OSX doesn’t. I’ve used them both and I know. You keep on coming up with solutions to Ubuntu’s problems, but the thing is these are the types of things you shouldn’t have to do.

Why is Ubuntu’s default mail program not good? Apple sure does make stuff that is designed to be very middle of the road, but their apps are generally much better than any other ones I use. If I could use Mac apps on a PC or Linux, I would use all of them except for Quicktime.
That’s the thing about Linux users that you simply don’t understand…I want something that is greater than the sum of its parts. It’s like a BMW vs some kind of custom tuned car. You simply cannot replicate something that was engineered from the ground up to work together. This includes hardware. Sitting in a BMW you start to notice things that were engineered with a great deal of thought. It’s a similar experience with a Mac.

This guy is into photography. Has Linux got anything to compare with Aperture? I’ve used the Gimp before and it’s nowhere near as good as Photoshop. How could it be? Photoshop costs like 400 dollars! He’s also into Music, and I would imagine that Audacity is pretty good, actually.

His idea of music editing is pretty interesting. I don’t know if that means strictly audio or possibly music creation. Hey, how about iLife 08? That’s free. It includes garageband, and if he is very serious then he can get Logic, which is professional level.

That having said, I have always loved experimenting with Operating Systems, but Linux users need to take a breath for a minute and realize that it still needs work. Linux users have been using the same argument for years now. I’ll be excited when it shows some serious quality. At that time. I’ve also always said that when it actually does become good enough, then you won’t have to convince people to use it. It’s FREE after all. If it isn’t popular with the price tag of free, then there’s most likely a reason for it, and it certainly isn’t a lack of preaching.

55

[QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze]
I got a Mac for Christmas and I lament the fact daily. I just cannot adjust. It’s driving me crazy. I think of all the time I spent lambasting Microsoft and Word…I take it back! I take it back!
[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure I understand this. You’ve been using the Mac for 9 months and you still haven’t adjusted? What are you having trouble with? Perhaps we can help out.

56

[QUOTE=Cuckoorex]
Where’s Bioshock? FAIL.
[/QUOTE]

Works for me on my Mac (using BootCamp). And I don’t have STAY in Windows once I’m done playing. Incidentally, it (BioShock) does NOT work for me on my standard Windows Vista machine – incompatible with the (built in to Vista) Wacom tablet drivers.

Seriously, folks, you don’t have to CHOOSE between Mac and Windows any more. The Mac will run both, either natively (BootCamp), or almost natively (Parallels – even video card acceleration now.) You can run Ubuntu, too, although it’s a challenge to get it to install in Parallels (or anywhere else, if your hardware is at all non-standard. Ubuntu Dapper Drake fails to install on all but one of my several PCs “out of the box” – usually with video card issues or “I can’t tell what order your hard drives are in” issues (the installer and the OS order the drives differently, so the install “works”…then can’t boot.))

Mac native games are, I’ll admit, rare, and often years behind their PC equivalents, when they come out at all. So be it…BootCamp is real Windows, on fast, native hardware. I don’t use it much for gaming, since I have a real PC as well, but when the real PC fails me…the Mac doesn’t.

57

[QUOTE=treis]
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/feisty/release/

It looks like PPC support is a community project now.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks :slight_smile:

58

…

59

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]
That’s the point..

You get what you pay for…

Linux requires work, and OSX doesn’t. I’ve used them both and I know. You keep on coming up with solutions to Ubuntu’s problems, but the thing is these are the types of things you shouldn’t have to do.
[/quote]

You aren’t doing a fair comparison here. If I tried to install OS X on my HP dv2000 there is little chance that it would work properly. My wireless card, sound card, and video card would likely not be supported. That doesn’t make OS X a bad operating system anymore than the problems I’ve had installing Ubuntu make Ubuntu a bad OS. If you buy a system with supported hardware, such as those from Dell, Ubuntu will work out of the box without any hardware problems.

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]

Why is Ubuntu’s default mail program not good? Apple sure does make stuff that is designed to be very middle of the road, but their apps are generally much better than any other ones I use. If I could use Mac apps on a PC or Linux, I would use all of them except for Quicktime.
[/quote]

Who says it’s not good? People have different tastes in software. The point is that if you don’t like the iWhatever software it’s more difficult to find a replacement in OS X.

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]

That’s the thing about Linux users that you simply don’t understand…I want something that is greater than the sum of its parts. It’s like a BMW vs some kind of custom tuned car. You simply cannot replicate something that was engineered from the ground up to work together. This includes hardware. Sitting in a BMW you start to notice things that were engineered with a great deal of thought. It’s a similar experience with a Mac.
[/quote]

You don’t know how perfect the BMW analogy is.

Anyways, as I’ve said before the advantage of a tightly controlled user experience is a more integrated and better experience, so long as you like the tightly controlled experience Apple gives you.

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]

This guy is into photography. Has Linux got anything to compare with Aperture? I’ve used the Gimp before and it’s nowhere near as good as Photoshop. How could it be? Photoshop costs like 400 dollars! He’s also into Music, and I would imagine that Audacity is pretty good, actually.

His idea of music editing is pretty interesting. I don’t know if that means strictly audio or possibly music creation. Hey, how about iLife 08? That’s free. It includes garageband, and if he is very serious then he can get Logic, which is professional level.
[/quote]

I don’t think Linux has anything to offer to compete to professional level software packages, but I’d say in most situations they have something that is good enough.

The OP is going to have to decide what s/he wants. The low-end Mac Book pro goes for $1,999. I configured a Dell laptop running Ubuntu with the same specs (minus a discrete video card) for $1,250. With that sort of price difference it’s worth 30 minutes of the OPs time to check out Ubuntu.

[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]

That having said, I have always loved experimenting with Operating Systems, but Linux users need to take a breath for a minute and realize that it still needs work. Linux users have been using the same argument for years now. I’ll be excited when it shows some serious quality. At that time. I’ve also always said that when it actually does become good enough, then you won’t have to convince people to use it. It’s FREE after all. If it isn’t popular with the price tag of free, then there’s most likely a reason for it, and it certainly isn’t a lack of preaching.
[/QUOTE]

Have you ever tried Linux on a computer with fully supported hardware? Most of the problems in Linux come with the lack of drivers for hardware. For example, you cited the lack of plug and play with monitors. That’s a driver issue with the video card. It’s a bit of a chicken and the egg problem. Linux isn’t more popular because there is a lack of drivers, and there is a lack of drivers because Linux isn’t more popular.

As to why more people haven’t adopted it, I’m sure there are numerous reasons. One of the main ones being the lack of consumer awareness. Ask 20 random people on the street if they know what Ubuntu is and you probably get 20 blank stares. Dell has started selling systems with Ubuntu pre-installed, which is huge, but try and find them on their site. I’ve looked and I can’t find them. If you search for Ubuntu they come right up, but I am pretty sure there is noway to click to them from Dell’s main page.

60

[QUOTE=treis]
The dock is the combined task bar/application launcher at the bottom of OS X. Damned careful of what? The point of package managers is that you don’t have to worry about library stuff.
[/QUOTE]

And also rbroome. I don’t know if I’m being whooshed, or if you really missed the fact that I was asking a hypothetical. You said, “If you don’t like how something is in OS X you’re pretty much stuck. With Ubuntu you can make it look or act however you want it to. Want docks? You can have docks. Want a taskbar on the bottom and start menu on the top. You got it. Want a combined taskbar/start menu? No problem. Want no menus at all? No problem.” Okay, so now pretend I’m an ignorant user. I don’t know what a dock is, or why I should add one, let alone how to add one. Once you’re a sophisticated user that knows what you want, you don’t need to be babied by a package manager.

The problem with package managers and managing libraries and dependencies is exactly why their raison etre is completely false. If you’re happy with “supported” ports and the “blessed” packages, then you’ll be okay. You can run apt-get (or whatever Ubuntu uses) all day and not have problems. But if you want to run something that’s newer, in the unstable tree, or plain just not supported, you have to switch your sources to a different tree. Now you start to run into inconsistencies. If you want to compile your own stuff including your own dependencies, then you’re doubly screwed. You’ve got to manually start keeping track of all of your libraries, versions, and install locations. With Mac applications (and I don’t mean FINK ports, but bona fide apps) none of this occurs. Most installs are a single, self-contained package that don’t require an installer. For apps that use libraries, the Mac OS automatically manages simultaneous, various versions of the same library file so that nothing breaks when the new library you need for App09 isn’t really backwards compatible with App07.

I’m telling you, I know Linux, and continue to use it because it’s a perfect tool for what I task it with. I’m not trying to be a Linux sucks guy or a Mac is a perfect wonder (it’s not). If Ubuntu has some new, universal package manager that handles any and all sources, multiple library versions, and manually compiled things 100% perfectly and transparently, then I’ll scrap Debian in a heartbeat and give it a whirl. But I doubt it, because it’s just not possible (nor is it possible on the Mac, just that a different approach is used). Now that I think of it, a good example of the “Mac way” is the Linux version of Mozilla. Download it into the directory you want, and run it. No dependencies. No package manager. Easy as, well, a Mac.