Um, since when has anyone in the Bush administration been indicted for war crimes?
Where are we involved that we don’t belong?
Oh, gee, what a brilliant plan. Let’s give the Iraqi’s food BEFORE we remove Saddam from power! That will work! :rolleyes: Oh yes, it would also do WONDERS to prevent civilian deaths! Instead of having a military take out a well armed dictator, lets send the poor masses of unarmed Iraqi peasants at them! Absolutely brilliant.
Whatever.
This is what I am afraid of. The Democrats might try to capitalize on anti-Bush feelings, and nominate someone from the far left, who they know perfectly well does not represent the country.
In this case, I might vote against them on principle, just like I voted for Gray Davis because the Republicans nominated a joke like Bill Simon.
However, if the Democrats run any campaign other than “Sure, we don’t represent you, but at least we’re better than Bush” then I will vote for their candidate and I predict the country would too.
Monster104 – Right on.
Nightime: “…and nominate someone from the far left, who they know perfectly well does not represent the country.”
I am curious what kind of “far left” figure you think has a chance, even a small chance, of being nominated?
Mandelstam - Right now, none. However, depending on the war and the economy, anti-Bush feelings could grow much stronger before the next election, and different Democratic nominees could become front-runners. It’s not like any of the current pool of nominees has it in the bag.
Still, I don’t consider this a huge possibility. I mention it because it is the only way I would vote for Bush. If the biggest problem of the Democratic candidate is lack of charisma and general likeability, I would vote for them over Bush.
I see where you’re coming from, Nightime but I still feel tempted to add that I can’t think of a single figure who I’d call “far left” in the US Senate. Here on these Boards one sometimes hears Hillary Clinton described in that way which, to my mind, is ridiculous. Dean or Kucinich are probably too left to get nominated, as Wellstone would have been: but none are (IMO) “far left.”
Well, running with the half of the country voting in the last elections numbers, that’s 35% of the population if they voted on that issue alone. i can guarentee you that the 30% against the war will ALL vote in this election anti-W, so the numbers are more narrow. The war will be over, and people will realize the economy is still in the dumpster and vote Shrub out. Any Democrat worth his salt should pick a rail as his running mate, so W can be rode out of town on it.
My great fear will be that the Repubs will try to rig the 2004 election like they did the 2000 election, if it looks close. The Dems would do well to have independent pollsters on hand to verify that what gets recorded as the vote is actually the way people voted, and the major news orgs should make a POINT of doing exit polling – could be some major news stories to be had that way.
Of course, Faux News won’t be doing THAT …
Yep, we already have a secret plot. If I divulge the full details, they’ll cut my tongue out, but I can tell you it involves the use of trained dolphins and Democrat-sniffing dogs. :smack:
If you pay my taxes for those four years, I’ll vote for any candidate you want (except Jesse)…
[black helicopter]
whop…whop…whop…whop…Target acquired!
[/bh]
Yeah, you Dems keep thinking that you’re sure to win the election as long as the GOP doesn’t rig it. Don’t worry about who you nominate-- that has nothing to do with it. It’s a scientifically proven fact that as long as the elction is “fair” a Dem is sure to win. If if they don’t, well that just proves that the GOP hacks rigged things.
It’s so productive to keep looking back at Florida in '00. Forget that it was Democrats in most of the contested counties that were running the elections. Just keep harping about how the last election was stolen, and you’ll even get a lot of sympathy votes from registered Republicans who want to make it up to you. I, like most voters, just can’t resist the appeal of a whiner.
I don’t understand why true conservatives would even vote for Bush.
He’s drastically bloating the Federal Government and costing us billions just to shuffle some employees around and rename a bunch of departments into the “Department of Homeland Security.” I can’t imagine anything more useless. What would have been wrong with a simple Executive Order and the appointment of a Homeland Security oversight committee?
The Republicans in general are so anti-conservative now that it just confuses me. How is it conservative to allow companies to dodge taxes that the rest of us have to pay? Or to give huge tax breaks to that segment of the population least in need of them? To cut veterans’ benefits in a time of war? To start a nation-building excersise in Iraq?
How conservative is it to reduce our civil rights with BS like the PATRIOT Act? Aren’t conservatives supposed to be against government intrusion and waste?
Personally, I no longer consider the Republicans conservative. I call them bought.
And the Democrats don’t get away either. They’ve been rubber-stamping all of this horsesh*t since 9/11 made them too afraid of opinion polls to stand up and ask questions.
I want someone to stand up and say “This is out of control. This is not what America is all about.”
I don’t care if it’s a Democrat, a Republican, or a Libertarian, we need someone to take the reins of power away from the fat, greedy children who are holding them.
I would vote for Dennis Hastert or even Pat Robertson before I’d vote for Bush. If we have to have a right-wing conservative and/or religious zealot in the White House, let’s at least have one who is competent.
Rather have Bradley. Rather have Gore. Rather have Robert Byrd. HR Clinton would be tolerable. Would prefer McCain. Would, if necessary, choke down my nausea and vote for Al Sharpton if that were the only alternative to Bush.
Hey, feel free to believe that Bush didn’t handle the victory gracefully or graciously or whatever. The entire election may have been peopled with scoundrels on both sides. That still doesn’t contradict my point.
Which would appear to be that your guys are more effective scoundrels. Congratulations. Did you ever notice that cynics invariably describe themselves as hard headed and realistic?
Not my guys. I voted for Bush, but I was on record as wanting whoever got the most votes to win, just as I stated that if Gore won the Electoral College but lost the popular vote (which is what some were speculating would occur prior to the election), then he’d be my president, fair and square.
It was an unfortunate situation. Again, I don’t believe the Republicans were more effective scoundrels at all. My whole point is they needn’t have done a thing; there was nothing effective or ineffective about it. Villify them for their behavior if you feel it’s justified, but don’t assign a conclusion to their actions that was simply not possible.
**Scupper : **
You are a wise and reasoned voice in a sea of blather. Why what you say is not alarmingly obvious to everyone is a mystery to me.
The “Patriot” Act (war is peace…), the lopsided tax cuts (all animals are equal but some more so than others…), Total Information, T.I.P.S., the talk of national I.D. cards, “you are either for us or against us”, etc. etc.
I love this country. I believe (really believe) in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the American Dream. But for the first time in my 40+ years here, I’m scared. Of my own government.
GW embodies, to me, a very dangerous “ends justify the means” mindset that would sacrifice sloppy personal freedoms at the altar of nice, neat security.(The fact that pols of all stripes are racing each other to capitulate doesn’t lessen GW’s responsibility as leader.) We may not be marching towards a fascist state, but we certainly are slouching towards it.
Eternal vigilance doesn’t always mean looking outwards.
Oddly enough, I live in Central North Carolina which you would think would be in wholehearted support of this war. But alas, while we support our troops (and I was in the First Persian Gulf War myself so I know important that is) we do not understand this war nor support it as a majority.
OK, I’ve been reading here awhile and I feel I have to say something. Rip me apart if you must, I’m obviously not as well educated or versed as many of you here.
I fail to see what the big misunderstanding is here about the war. I think it’s very plain to see. Saddam agreed to many stipulations as a condition to ending the '91 war. He has not kept his agreement. Negotiations and sanctions have been tried. They haven’t worked. Now we are going in to remove him. Plain and simple. It’s not about oil as many of the liberals are saying. I see that as a smoke screen to hide behind because they have to manufacture some BS to turn public opinion against GW. So that doesn’t work so they have to portray GW as some kind of crook that stole the election from their man, more fabricated BS. So that doesn’t work so they try to portray GW as some kind of nincompoop who doesn’t know shit.
Just for the record Florida did finally end up counting all those ballots, hanging chads and all and you know what? GW still won the election. So let’s quit that crap already OK? You lost! Get over it!
The war is about removing Saddam from power, plain and simple.
GW is not an idiot. He is not a war monger.
He is a man of integrity and strength to follow through with his/our convictions. How would it look if after agreeing to stop the '91 war on the terms of the agreement, then when that agreement is not honored by Saddam we don’t do anything? Oh, we talk and talk and threaten him with sanctions, oh I’m scared, but otherwise just let him do as he pleases for say, oh the next 12 years! Yeah, we will really command the respect of the world for that huh? I absolutely shudder to think how this would have all gone down if Al “I invented the internet” Gore was actually president.