I am in the process of buying a used car from a dealer. When I was checking it out, everything seemed fine except that I noticed the selector dial on the heater/AC blower did not seem to work; no matter which selection it was set at, the air blew out of the defrost ducts up by the windshield.
I mentioned this to the salesman and he said something like, “we can fix that, no problem, it just needs the widget replaced, it’s a $40 part.”
So then, I test drive the car and put the AC on full blast. The air is still kicking out of the defrost duct, but it is not even cool air, it is warm.
I return to the dealer and say, “the air conditioning is not working, it’s blowing warm air.”
He says, “Yeah, that’s because that widget is bad. Once we replace it, the AC will work.”
I said ‘cool’, but now I’m dubious. Does his explanation sound reasonable? How do we know the AC does not have a bad compressor (a job that will run much more than $40).
The problem arises because he said if the widget does not come in today, I can always bring the car back in a few days - which will be after the money has changed hands - and he will install the widget. I am concerned that he’ll install the widget, the AC will still not work, and I’ll be screwed (or at least terribly inconvenienced).
My thought is don’t exchange money until the A/C is fixed.
If he gives you any grief about it, turn it back around on him, e.g. “Why can’t you get it fixed right so I can give you my money? Don’t you want to sell this car to me?”
Is there some reason you absolutely have to finalize the deal before they fix the A/C?
ETA: Do you remember exactly what widget he was talking about? I can think of a whole lot of parts that could be the problem and some of them cost a lot more than $40.
Sounds like BS to me. If the air conditioning works, it works.
Which vent it uses, depends on the diversion mechanism. Some fancy vehicles it’s electromechanical (push a button) simpler vehicles had the slider, which mechanically moves the damper. A broker slider is probably a broken linage; a broken push-button is anything fro the button switch to wiring to electrical actuator broken. $40 for the part, but how much for the labour to open the dashboard and get at the part? Why wouldn’t they do it already, unless they just got the vehicle?
The cooling part - there may be a damper to mix outside and heated/cooled air that is broken, but I would think the real control for AC is in the volume of coolant allowed into the core (otherwise, you are wasting gas compressing freon that is not pumped into the cabin?) Any AC experts out there?
I had a car (BMW 323i, no less) where the air conditioning blew moderately cool to the driver, but warm to the passenger. Eventually they traced it to a slow coolant leak. The compressed freon-substitute was cool enough to cool some air on the left where it entered the cooler core, but by the time it got to the right it was warm, no cooling effect. So they recharged the coolant, and within a week it all leaked out; recharge and replace a valve.
So - why would they not fix an AC problem when they received the car? How do they know for sure the AC works and continues to work reliably? Do you really trust them to not stick you with a an AC with a slow leak (don’t charge the freon until we have a live customer, it will take a week before it all leaks out and by then his cheque has cleared)
Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, like you had just witnessed the salesman in the garage replacing a transmission, I would assume that the salesman doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about.
Is it possible he is right? Perhaps. Is it possible he is wrong? More likely in my opinion. In some cars putting the vent selector in defrost mode will force the compressor on. I can’t think of a scenario under which it would prevent it from coming on. If you posted the year and model of the car, an auto wizard may be able to say more definitively.
It’s possible that his story is true.
If the part was an vacuum switch, then maybe the same defective switch is messing up the air-routing vacuum motors and the blend-door motor. But, it seems more likely that he’s trying to jerk you around.
I wouldn’t expect that having the mode stuck on defrost would prevent the A/C from cooling. Nevertheless, it’s not impossible that both symptoms arise from the same root cause. Knowing year, make, model, and engine size will make it easier for us to assess the situation accurately.
I question that the salesman actually knows what’s causing the problems. If it’s a car make he’s familiar with (which is most likely if it’s the same brand that the dealership sells new), then it could be he’s guessing right, but it’s still almost certainly a guess. I think your concern that his proposed repair may not actually fix things is quite valid. I suggest do not consummate the deal until it’s clear that the problems are fixed, or at least you have it stipulated in writing that they will be fixed. Not that the widget will be replaced, but that the problem will be fixed.
md2000 is right in that if the lack of cooling is because the refrigerant (not coolant) is low, topping it up will restore cooling but not address why it is low, nor prevent its getting low again.
My suggestion is that unless you would be happy buying a car with those problems, don’t buy a car with those problems. Salemen’s promises are notoriously unreliable.
You’re talking to a salesman, not an auto air conditioning mechanic. He has no business telling you anything about the mechanical operation of the vehicle. Have them fix it first, and then thoroughly test-drive the car for any other problems.
The car is a 2005 Ford Focus. The dealership is a very small one that has been in business for 20 years. The guy I dealt with wasn’t just a salesman, he seems to be the owner.
Anyway, they just called and said the AC is fixed and the car is ready to be picked up. I won’t be heading out there until around 5:00 (EST) tonight.
So I guess my question now is how do I know that he didn’t just boost up the coolant (refrigerant?) as a temporary fix?
Everything else about the vehicle seems fine. I also got the Carfax report that indicated two minor accidents and two private owners (no rental or lease action). The asking price was 6 grand, we haggled and settled on $5400.
If the AC craps out in a month, any guesses as to how much it would set me back?
mmm
It’s refrigerant. Coolant is the water/antifreeze mixture in the engine’s cooling system that keeps the engine from getting hot enough to melt. Refrigerant is the freon in the A/C system. Yes, it helps keep you cool; no it is not coolant. Anyway, how do you know? Unless you were there when they serviced it, you don’t. All you have to go on is what they tell you.
No really helpful guesses. There’s a number of different ways an A/C system can fail. If it fails from loss of refrigerant (which may or may not be what the previous problem was – we’re just advising about possibilities), it could be under 200 or close to 1000, depending on what part is leaking.
If you’re dealing with the owner of the dealership, have him guarantee, in writing, that any AC problems will be fixed for N months, N thousand miles for whatever value of N that you can get from him. If he won’t, be prepared to walk away. If you’re in love with the Focus lineup, (I have 2) another one will be available soon.
Doesn’t air blowing out of the defrost vent usually indicate a loss of vacuum? How could that be the same problem as blowing warm air?
To the OP: Don’t buy the car until the problem is fixed. Dealer used car lots can be as crooked as any other used car lot, and while you might win the lawsuit, it’d be painful.
Your statement of the problem is very non-specific, but makes me suspect a vacuum operated ventilating system of a type that is common on some older US cars - I am not at all certain about the status of the newer cars, though I believe most of them us electric servos.
What you have been told could be true. But not necessarily. Specify make, model, and year of car and you’ll get a better answer.
So I called the sales guy/owner/AC expert (:)) and asked how the AC was repaired. He said he had to replace a cable (he’ll show me the old part) that controls both the direction of airflow as well as the temperature. This cable somehow does both.
I said I’m concerned about the compressor, that there would be an expensive repair down the road. He said the compressor is good, if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t “turn on”.
So then I said I’d like to take the car to a repair shop and have the AC tested; he said that’s no problem. I called a shop just down the road, they’ll charge $35 to test it.
Sounds like a plan to me.
The more I think about it, the more uneasy I feel about the AC. I just hope it checks out OK - car shopping is a PITA.
I guess I should have read the entire thread before responding.
I looked around on the internet and didn’t find definitive information about how your ventilating system is put together. I saw something for a 2001 Focus that implies it uses both cables and (type unspecified) servos to move air doors.
If your system is vacuum controlled, then it would not be uncommon to have a vacuum switch that would enable the compressor. If the control system was down, then there easily could be no vacuum to this switch, hence no air conditioning.
If your system is electrically controlled, then I would not expect this possibility to exist; the compressor should start.
As for the condition of the AC, it just depends. A 2005 has a seven year old system, which is reaching an age where service might easily be required. The best you can do is check for oil around fittings on the AC system, and study the rubber hoses carefully looking for any evidence of cracks. You should probably grab those hoses and pull them back and forth a few times (with the engine and AC off), looking for cracks and listening for a hiss. Don’t be gentle; they should take it and if they don’t they’re bad.
I’m fully certified for AC work (I have an unlimited license) and I’ve usually found it convenient to service my own, even in vehicle ACs. The last time I service a vehicle of mine, I replace the entire system in my 1992 Toyota Celica GTS (I like it and won’t sell it…). It cost me nearly $600 in parts to replace compressor, dryer, expansion valve, and have the rubber hoses rebuilt. I have some R-12 freon in stock that I bought just before it went off the market so I recharged the system out of my personal stock.
So that kind of tells you what it can cost; I did the work and didn’t charge myself for labor but I had $600 in it anyway.
Can’t hurt to google "Lemon law’ and your state; in most sane places, the dealer is responsible for any problems that you find soon after the purchase.
What ‘soon’ means depends on your state law of course. And it may or may not be easy to get the guy to actually fix anything, even if the law is clear, but knowing what your rights are under the law is a good first step.
I don’t see any reason to be suspicious. More exactly, I don’t see any reason to wonder whether you should be suspicious or not. The question isn’t “is he lying to me” but rather “do I want to buy a car without A/C?”
Consider this a second vote for making the supercarguy owner salesman ac mechanic PUT IT IN WRITING that they’ll guarantee the AC for however many months makes you feel comfortable. Otherwise - and this is a definite fact - you can buy another car from anywhere else with relative ease. There’s tons of used cars around. Unless this particular car has the added feature of rubbing your feet while you drive then I don’t see it being better than another Focus with a working AC system.
I think it’s pretty common for a Lemon Law to only cover new cars, not used. At least that’s true in my state. And the owner typically has to give the dealer several chances to remedy the problem before being able to return the vehicle.
