Stealing a play from KidCharlemagne’s book, I’m looking for responses from people who’ve changed their thinking on gay issues–political, religious, biological, societal, sexual, whatever–due to their participation in the SDMB.
Interested in positive AND negative, but if you feel the need to attack me personally there’s already a Pit thread going.
Sure, I’ve modified my beliefs in a number of small ways. And it is worth noting that, before finding the Dope, I was [and still am] pretty openminded about issues facing gays and lesbians.
I used to think that the schoolyard taunt of “that’s gay”/ “you’re gay” didn’t really hurt anything and that that’s just kids being kids; that trying to stamp it out was tantamount to the pc police prosecuting thought crime. But after seeing several discussions of that particular topic on the Dope, I’ve come to believe that it is unnecessary and perpetuates a lot of needless ignorance and homophobia [though I loathe that word because I think it is often misused], and I would forbid my own children from the usage as vehemently as I would forbid use of the word ‘nigger’.
Poor Lissener! I haven’t changed my views (the SDMB reinforces them, if any). But I thought I saw someone in “The Thread” who said he had changed his views (Airman Doors?). Every little bit helps!
None of the discussions on the SDMB have changed my thinking that it is precisely nobody’s business that someone chooses a same sex partner, that discrimination on the basis of sexual preference is bad, and that Fred Phelps is a disgusting human being.
I also think that it really shouldn’t matter whether being a homosexual is biological or a choice, and I still get depressed when I see those threads.
However, the discussions on the SDMB have revealed to me how vehement and quick to anger both sides of the debate are, and that too depresses me.
What the hell is this about? Why don’t you take it to the pit, instead of this drive-by shit where you’re safe from responses?
Speaking for myself, I no longer believe all gay men are snappy dressers with impeccable taste in interior design. 
Yup; when I first shambled in here, I was still pretty much a fundamentalist/literalist Christian; the SDMB hasn’t been the only influence, but it has certainly been a very significant one.
Discussion with the good folks here has forced me to think; once I started thinking, I just couldn’t seem to stop.
My views have not changed.
Mangetout, can you elaborate on precisely how your views have changed? What did you used to think and what do you think now?
I was quite the fundie 4 years ago, not knowing anyone except fundies.
The sd has helped me see other sides,be more open minded. We can alwasysbe wrong.
As for homosexuality, well, I’ve alwasy seen nothing wrong with marriage for them!
Heck, I once married one.
I’ve learned that gays are people, too.
Seriously.
This is the first time and place in my life where I’ve ever interacted with gays–at all, period. It’s been very–educational.
And I don’t just mean in the sense of Esprix’s “Ask the gay guy” threads, either.
It’s been very…illuminating…to realize that gays worry about the same things that I do, that they have the same problems, that their sexuality is for the most part in the background of “who they are”, like me. That they aren’t all “in-your-face” gay, that you could actually know them for a long time, even IRL, without realizing they were gay. Gay stereotypes abound in the world of Fundamentalism, lacking any other input. Fundies by and large don’t really talk to gays, so the SDMB afforded me an opportunity that I would never have had otherwise.
It’s also been very sobering to hear the other side of the “my child just told me s/he’s gay!” family crisis–the heart-cries in the Pit and other places, where someone is agonizing over “whether to tell my parents, when to tell, how to tell”, and especially the pain when the parents refuse to accept it. If one of my kids came to me now and said s/he was gay, my response would be different than what it would have been before I started hanging out at the SDMB. It would be much more accepting.
And I think it’s instructive that none of this enlightenment came about from reading in-your-face “preachy” pro-gay threads*, but rather from four years of simple interaction with gays here.
Oh, and–what Cervaise said. 
*not referring to Esprix here
Before responding, I would like to ask – are we looking specifically for changes solely as a result of these boards, or changes that have happened through the time period covered by our membership on these boards?
Hmmm, well, I was pretty much accepting the spoonfed, predigested rhetoric about homosexuality being just plain wrong, along with inferences that it was an insidious evil, the tolerance of which would result in calls for equal tolerance toward paedophilia, rape, robbery and murder (yes, some Christians really do think that, and by no means are they all foaming-at-the-mouth Phelps types).
I’m not entirely sure how, when and why things changed, I only know that they did; Oddly, I think that a possible turning point was the realisation that left-handedness was once treated in a very similar manner to the way homosexuality is treated today.
This place has been very challenging and stimulating for me; I have learned to ask a lot more questions of myself.
I’ve also learned that it’s OK to be uncertain, undecided or unconcerned about a few things - one of the prevalent attitudes in fundamentalist Christianity is that you have to have an answer for everything and a firm opinion on every subject (Ok, that’s a slight exaggeration) - trouble is that this can often mean that, in the rush to assert your firm opinion, you forget to think and end up blurting out a stream of utter bollocks.
My attitudes toward lesbians have changed somewhat since I joined the Boards. Some of that is probably attributable to interactions with other lesbians on the Boards. One consequence of this is that I now feel comfortable identifying as a lesbian.
Up to you.
(I WOULD like to say, however, that I specifically asked about Dopers whose attitudes HAD changed. I can’t ban them from the thread or anything, but those whose attitudes have not change do not need to chime in here just to say so. Thanks.)
My opinions have changed very little.
From the few homosexual based discussions I’ve read here on the SDMB, my opinion has changed very little. I’m mostly a live and let live kind of guy. However, when I spoke out against using tax dollars for the Harvey-Milk school (the all gay school), I was branded a homophobe. I still believe that my tax dollars should not be used for charity of someone else’s personal pet project, so no opinion change there. I still believe that all violent crime should be treated the same, and that “hate crime” laws should be replaced by stricter penalties for ALL violent crime. I still believe that racists and bigots should have the same right for free speech as all other groups. Heck, I’d prefer they speak out, so I know who to avoid in a social setting. The only change I have undergone, is a realization that the aforementioned racists and bigots come from militant homosexuals as much as from members of the anti-gay lobby.
I don’t see homosexuals as helpless individuals whom I must defend because they are so downtrodden and unable to help themselves. I see them just as I see any other individual. So I don’t tread lightly around them when I disagree with them or their agenda. I think that is what makes me un-homophobic. Others are free to label me however they wish.
I’m supposed to be doing my homework. But what the heck.
My views on homosexuality have changed a whole lot since I registered here. Mainly from reading the SDMB, and matt_mcl’s website, which I heard about here.
When I came to the boards, I was a highschool student who’d grown up in a world where homosexuality didn’t exist. A fantasy world, of course. A world where you don’t talk about things like that at home, and where gay people were some wierd thought experiment. Or, if there really are gay people, then they just do the gay thing for the shock value, or because it’s some wierd fetish that’s easier not to think about, or because they’re seriously messed up in the head, because, obviously, it’s a mental disease. Gay people, in this world, have huge issues. And maybe they just haven’t figured out their gender roles.
I hadn’t met any gays (that I knew of). They existed, if at all, in some faraway land beyond the hills and streets of my neighborhood. And any real young man you had feelings or desires of ‘that type’ wasn’t really gay, he was just, experimenting because… <insert long, complex, but mostly sensible-sounding excuse>. After all, boys like girls. Girls like boys. I didn’t know much about love – having been very, very good at avoiding feeling things altogether (love, joy, sorrow, included) for most of my youth – but this was Just The Way Things Are: Boys > Girls. Girls > Boys.
Not that I hated gays, when I met them on the boards, or, ultimately, in real life. They can do whatever they want. If they enjoy it, and it’s not hurting them or anyone else, fine. We have to let people live the way they want to live. But it’s definitely not desireable, and it’s not the sort of thing you’d discuss in polite company.
Heck, one of the strongest reactions to anything I’ve read on the boards was where someone had written about a potential character for Star Trek, who was from a planet where the incidence of homosexuality is high enough that a hatred of the trait never developed, and so this character was surprised to hear of homophobia among humans. “Yeah,” I thought, “because homosexuality is normal and okay. Yeah, right, it’s just the way people are, and it happens with a certain frequency among humans.”
I didn’t mind if gays did the gay thing, but to think it was actually for real- that sane people could fall in love with members of their own gender, or be sexually attracted to them, was ridiculous.
That was, more or less, what I ‘knew’ of homosexuality.
This was all based on two simple ideas:
It’s been hard, but facing reality, partly from data gathered on the board, and in large part from personal reflection, has required me to build and adopt a new belief system: one which takes the world as is (or at least, as best I can figure out how it is).
My new view of homosexuality:
I’m not completely sure, but from what I can tell, human sexuality is not as fixed as one might think. And it’s not bipolar, either-- there’s no One and Zero about it. Some people are attracted mainly to men, some mainly to women, some are somewhere in between. And that’s just the way things are. And nothing which is is wrong (though human actions which are destructive or which promote hurt, can be).
People might as well just live their damn lives, and, keeping reason and good sense at their side, experience their emotions. And if those emotions tell them to get close to someone they care about, so be it.
Love exists, after all. And it’s good. And there’s nothing wrong with loving someone who can love you back, with all the maturity and understanding of an adult. And it’s okay to feel, by the way. It’s hard enough being alone in the world, and there’s enough loneliness as it is, without forcing love out the door becasue of pre-world constructions of no necessity.
Homosexuality is to sexuality what Scandinavian fairness is to skin tone. Some people are really, really fair. Some people are black as coal. And there’s a whole range in between, though there may be strong populations clustered close to the ends – in the case of sexuality, partly because of a need to identify with one pole or another of the spectrum.
This change in worldview is part of a latest wave of maturing-- a real Renaissance chez wolfstu. Associated with that (you guessed it):
I’m gay.
I’m gay. I really am. Well, I’m not sure; I might be one of those bisexuals who’s close to the gay end of the scale. And I’ll find out by just letting myself be attracted to whoever I’m attracted to, and not trying to kill the feelings off, and not explaining them into some epicyclic excuse.
But it’s okay. IT’S OKAY. IT’S OKAY THAT I’M GAY. I’ve accepted it. I had to abandon childish preconceptions, and do away with being what the broader culture said I had to be, but I’ve accepted it. I told my best friend I was thinking about it a month and a half ago, I told him I was sure just over two weeks ago. I’ve told a few other people. (And I’ve alluded to my feelings, oh, a couple months ago, when someone on the board was asking for help figuring something out.) But here I am, coming out. And my friends are slowly finding out, as it comes up. I’ve told about half a dozen of them now.
But I haven’t told my parents. They’ll find out when I go home next (Christmas)… unless they’ve been reading the boards, which I doubt. My friends, for now, know to keep it quiet so they don’t find out the wrong way.
So, yeah. Sorry for the side bar… but, yes, my views on homosexuality have changed dramatically. Guess who isn’t crying anymore? Guess who isn’t so torn up he can’t eat? Guess who’s not failing his midterms anymore because he’s too distracted by a seeming crisis to do his homework? Guess who’s got hope again? wolfstu, that’s who.
Like Esprix used to say: I’m gay. Any questions? 
My views haven’t changed. If anything what I see here solidifies them.
Wolfstu, I’m proud to be a part of the community that’s helped you come to this point in your life. Sounds like you’re well on your way to a good life.
My views have only changed in that I’ve come to realize the necessity of political involvement. Seeing the nature of the opposition to gay equality, being exposed to the rhetoric of straight supremacy in all these discussions, has solidified my resolve to try to help make a difference in securing an equal place in society for GLBT people.
Nowadays, I volunteer at the local GLBT community center. And I vote. It’s not much, but it’s more than I was doing before.
lissener
I read a bit of the other thread and I understand your frustration.
However, I think you are missing two key points. First, it is extremely unusual for someone to admit you are right after a heated debate. This doesn’t mean, however, that your point hasn’t gotten through. On the contrary, after getting wupped in a debate, most people will incorporate the new information into their thinking. I believe that you are constantly having the same argument, but I suspect you are often having it with different people.
Second, and more importantly, people’s opinions are seldom black and white or even completely consistent shades of grey. This issue is of enormous importance to you, but most people just don’t put that much thought into it. They can be influenced in the direction you want them to go even if they won’t go the whole way. Having a religious fundamentalist’s Sin-o-Meter go from “Spawn of Satan” to “I Wouldn’t Want My Daughter to Marry One” is a great victory in itself. Think of it as undercutting the enemy’s morale.
I think DDG makes an excellent point. The best guarantor of gay rights is people interacting with gays. The vast majority of people have neither the interest nor the capacity to follow complex scientific or legal discussions. Rather, their opinions are ad hoc and emotional. “Hey, that Gobear guy is OK. Esprix isn’t scary. Anthracite has interesting things to say. I like them all. Hmm. I guess I am in favour of gay rights!”
The point here is that people who interact with them do have their opinions changed, even if they don’t realize it themselves. If you’ve never (knowingly) known any gay people, it’s easy to think in lurid stereotypes depicting the most radical gay subcultures. But once you do, these preconceptions fall away. When people begin to suspect that gays are just like everyone else, they start to suspect that maybe gays should be treated like everyone else. That suspicion may not turn them into gay activists, but it might make them at least fellow travelers.
In sum, everyone who isn’t with you, isn’t necessarily against you.