You make some excellent points, JohnBckWLD. Thank you. I have some limited (and not so good) experience with individual counselors and, on the other side, some training and experience in counseling. Your second point under pitfalls, about the money thing, is exactly why I left one counselor I was seeing after my mother died. She would bring up the whole insurance thing every single time. “Well, what did we accomplish today, we can’t just sit and chat because I have to have something to put down on the insurance forms.” Ooookay.
Stanger, thank you very much for sharing your perspective. Honestly, I assumed you were a woman in a similar situation. It’s really eye-opening to hear your viewpoint. My husband is not physically abusive in the classic sense to me or the kids. He does, however, get physical (with walls, doors, tries to physically force an object to work instead of looking at what the problem might be, that sort of thing)when he’s angry or frustrated- and he’s easily angered and frustrated. He is a big man, physically strong and he can hurt just by grabbing your hand when he’s angry, even though he’ll tell you he wasn’t hurting you. And I don’t think he intentionally does, but the fact remains that it occassionally happens and it’s just too close to the line. I am physically safe as long as I stay in the relationship. My concern is what would happen if I were to tell him I want out. I can easily envision him going over the edge and feeling like he has nothing to lose or just flipping out to the point where he has no control and is operating on pure anger. He has become enraged, I’ve seen it and it’s frightening. I have told him before that his temper is frightening to me and to the kids, that he has to use his hands carefully because he is stronger than he thinks, etc. His general reaction has always been, “But I’d never hurt you guys.” Unfortunately I don’t trust that to be true if the circumstances were right and I have good reason to feel that way. I really thank you for your perspective. Maybe this is something I can talk to him more about and maybe, given that he knows how unhappy I am at this point, just maybe he’s more ready to listen and hear what I’m saying.
I have to say, this is the first time I have been mistaken for a female!
LOL, I think I will take it as a complement for it means I am getting in touch with emotions long buried.
It does sound to me, from my layman’s perspective, that your husband might not be ready to deal with his problems.
I hope he sees your un-happiness, and takes steps to help rectify the situation.
I wasn’t ready to deal with my own problems until divorce was thrown in my face.
I guess it was the old “never ask for directions” syndrome…I knew I had a problem, but figured I could fix it myself.
I still haven’t figured out if I would have rather remained unaware of my problems in dim ignorance, or recognize the problems and face the pain that comes with knowing.
I have been hyper-vigilant to threats from the outside world, and disconnected from the woman I have loved for fourteen years.
The hole I dug is deep, and the view out of said hole leaves much to be desired.
Amen!! Mrs. Maroon and I were separated for 14 months. We are now in the third month of seeing a counseler. Three weeks ago we were a mess. I thought the situation was hopeless, but now I see that we had to take a step back before we could start fixing things. Now I think I might get my family back.
We got lucky. The woman we are seeing is affiliated with The United Way, so she is affordable, and she is GREAT!. Don’t dismiss a possible source of help just because they don’t have a sheepskin from an Ivy League school.
“Don’t give up. Don’t ever give up.” Jim Valvano
Salem: This is difficult to write. I don’t think I could have written this at all 2 years ago.
When I re-read your last two posts, I realized you could have been my wife, saying those words about me. I’m guilty of punching a hole in a wall in frustration. I’ve also done a few other things that I wasn’t very proud of. But I never struck my wife or my kids. I couldn’t even consider it. They were too precious to me. But they had no way of knowing that I couldn’t hurt them. If I were so out of control that I’d kill the living room wall, it was logical for them to assume they were next. But I was too big a bonehead to recognize that. So I kept up my “dumb old guy” ways until my wife told me it was time for us to split up.
After 14 months of telling my friends how great it was to be single again, I was miserable. My son was entering his teen years, and I couldn’t be there to counsel him, except every other weekend. My daughter had a baby in October, but I could count on one hand the times I’ve been able to see my granddaughter. And I really missed my wife. She had been my best friend for 20 years.
So one night, I called her and convinced her to meet me for dinner. At dinner, I told her how wretched my life had become, and that I’d do most anything to try and win her back. I guess she never filed on me, thinking this day might come. No matter. I was glad she hadn’t filed. It meant I still had a chance.
Through the hit-or-miss method, we found a great counselor. She doesn’t take sides, but she was able to get across to me that my wife was scared of me. I never really considered that that could be the case. My wife was scared of me.
She is non-judgemental, which I really like. She takes each situation as it comes, and helps us deal with it. No sermons, no lectures. She has been able to defuse some of the situations that caused my out of control behavior. In short, she is helping us fix a lot of things that had gone wrong after 20 years.
As I write this, I’m still sitting in my crackerbox apartment. I hate this place, as much because it’s no great place to live as for what it represents. That is, this is my “Elba”. But things are looking up.
My wife’s birthday was Wednesday, the 15th. I took her out to eat, gave her a card and a small gift, we talked a great deal, and when I dropped her off at the house I used to live in, she kissed me.
So there is hope for your situation. If your husband really values his family, he’ll do what I’ve done. And hopefully, he won’t have to be banished for a year-and-a-half before it sinks in.
BTW, I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m patting myself on the back. All I’ve done is what I should have been doing all along. I’m very, very lucky and I know it.
{{{waddamaroon}}}
Salem,
Reading more of your responses reminds me a lot of my marriage. My ex often displayed frightening moments of anger, triggered sometimes by the simplest things.
If you are afraid that you might be next (as in, when he gets tired of hitting the wall, you will be his next target), I would have to say that it’s time for you and your children to get away from him, at LEAST temporarily. Waddamaroon tells a story whereby he suddenly came to his senses, and perhaps you would be that lucky as well. But…what if you aren’t?
When I told my ex that I had to leave, I couldn’t take it any more…could NOT go on with the relationship anymore, he went crazy. He was rolling around on the floor, screaming “Why?”…telling me that he loved me and seemed geniunely bewildered. After he’d “calmed” down a bit, he ran downstairs, jumped on his motorcycle and drove 100+ miles an hour. When he got on the bike, he told me goodbye, saying that he was going to kill himself.
He made a 20 minute drive in about 5 minutes, while I sat at home with our 4 children.
EVERY situation is different. What I have described to you was totally uncharacteristic of the man that I thought I had married. The anger part was expected…everything that followed was terrifying and completely unexpected. He came back, and for the next few weeks (I moved to the other side of the country as soon as I could…from WA state to GA) he begged and pleaded with me not to go. Cold as it may sound to some, I HAD to say no. He vowed to change, but I had already spent too much time with him for me to believe that was possible.
Hmm…I apologize, I strayed from my original point somewhat, but I wanted to share a bit of my experience so that you could see where things could go.
In short, be very careful around people who have violent tempers, even if it’s directed at inanimate objects. It seems that such powerful emotions are usually connected to something that has happened in a person’s past, and until THEY get help for THAT, their behavior will not really change. Be careful, DO get some help…and rely on your friends and family…you have no greater asset.
~J
Jaade: 14 months of estrangement, followed by 3 months of counseling, two nights a week, for an hour each night, have led me to my senses. It sure wasn’t sudden. And there are still no guarantees of anything. We are closer to being back together than we were in January, but we still have a long way to go. I’m hopeful.
My point, made in a very roundabout way, was if Mr. Salem truly values his family, I think there is a possibility that Salem can have a normal life again, with her family safe and intact.
Salem: Regarding your OP: When we first started talking to counselors, we didn’t really ask a lot of questions. We told them our story, in a nutshell, and let them ask the questions. How they responded to our answers is what decided the issue for us. The woman we are seeing spent the first two hours writing notes, learning more details about our situation, and giving us a general overview of how she percieved us. We were very comfortable with her very quickly. I guess you could call it the counseling equivalent of love at first sight.
As Jaade pointed out, every situation is different. I feel it would be mis-leading to say you should see a man, or you should see a woman, you should look for this or that. You and Mr. Salem have to find someone you are both comfortable with for this to have a chance. If that means bouncing from office to office for two months, like we did, then so be it.
And my wife’s b-day was Thursday the 15th. I can’t believe I got that wrong. Waddamaroon!!
Sorry Waddamaroon 
I meant that in a relative term I guess…Changing behavior that you maintained for 20 years in 14 months is quite sudden…relatively speaking.
Congratulations to you, and kudos for reaching deeper.
~J
Jaade-
IMHO regarding changing behavior- even behavior patterns maintained for 20 years- I believe this can be done in 14 months, or less.
I can’t really speak for waddamaroon, but I can use my own personal experience.
I my case, I just had to be shown the problems of my marriage in the cold light of reality.
Of course the cold light is an imminent divorce.
Even so, now that I can see the problems, they are identified as targets, and I can neutralize them.
(sorry for couching that in vaguely military-speak, but that’s what I’m most fluent in)
I know I can change my behavior patterns.
Unfortunately, Mrs. Stranger is in your camp…she doesn’t believe I can change.
YIKES, I just realized we are hijacking the heck out of Salem’s thread…
Salem,
I hope you can give us an update soon…
Stranger
Oh please don’t worry about hijacking in the least. This is all part of it and I’m learning a lot from different perspectives. I also appreciate both you and waddamoroon sharing your stories, even though I’m sure that’s difficult. And jaade, that’s exactly what I’m afraid of. Either that or him taking, at the least, our son. He has made threats before about what would happen if I left. I have no way of knowing if it was anger, alcohol or the truth. He has demonstrated his ability to completely wall off emotionally from someone he perceives has betrayed him or done something to hurt him. He may love me now, or so he says, but I can see him completely turning that around. And the sad truth is that I really have no desire to hurt him or to keep him from his children. But that’s what I feel I need a third party to hear and help him hear.
I have some other questions for both The_stranger and waddamaroon around alcohol abuse as well as how long you behaved as you did and how you felt you were able to change things. If you’re not comfortable answering here, please feel free to use my email in my profile. Actually, jaade, I’d like to hear about that from you as well. How are things with your ex now? How did he and you recover from this?
And just to reiterate, I can’t thank you all enough for sharing your stories and offering your thoughts. There is only one other person in this world that knows of what’s really been going on (I mean besides my husband) so this is incredibly helpful to me. I really, really thank you.
Stranger, I may be able to explain somewhat your wife’s feelings, I apologize in advance if I am presuming too much, or if I offend you. There came a point, for me, when the thought of continuing, of struggling for this relationship, of taking one more chance, just became too much for me to bear. I truly hoped that he would get help, that he would change, but I couldn’t help him any longer. This COULD be what your wife is trying to tell you, but it’s not easy when it’s someone you care deeply for. She probably DOES still love you, (and I don’t know any details of the relationship) but she may feel that emotionally, she’s done. 
I’m sorry.
Salem, unfortunately, my tale doesn’t end happily…or at least it hasn’t yet. My ex hasn’t seen the kids since March 1999 (his choice not mine) and stopped paying child support in July of that same year. He calls occasionally, with no particular rhyme or reason…sometimes calling once a week or so for months, and then goes a year or more without contacting the kids. He blames all of this on me (It was my choice to leave, I went to GA and he was in WA, then I came to TX, after which, he moved to GA and insinuated that I moved to keep the kids from him). My kids get confused, he calls and then doesn’t call…and he’s called CPS on me two times for really outrageous things.
He did seek councelling after I left…for about 2 minutes. His ex-girlfriend says he’s not changed at all, I’ve no idea what his new wife thinks, as I’ve never spoken to her…though she did intimate in a letter to the children that sometimes their father could be “grouchy”.
I wish much better for you.
Jaade: No apology necessary. I didn’t take offense, I just felt compelled to explain. Upon further review…it is a relatively short time.
Go ahead and speak for me, Stranger, you took the words right out of my mouth.
I might add that my wife had to see a few problems as well, at least as I percieved them. (I’m not Saint Waddamaroon). That is where our counselor is able to help tremendously. One issue has been gnawing at me for years, and to an extent, it has colored our relationship. We’ve spoken of it many times, but with no resolution. In a on-on-one session, I spilled my guts for the entire 55 minutes about this one situation. In our next session together, I think my wife was surprised to learn the depth to which this issue affected me. To her credit, she was finally able to acknowledge that this was serious problem and she, along with the doc and myself, was able to work out some ground rules to help improve the situation in the future. In doing so, one of my great frustrations has been removed. I guess you would say that we are “neutralizing” our problems together. Now the big things seem manageable, and the little things don’t become big things.
That was somewhat obtuse. What I’m trying to say is, I’m forcing myself to change because the one I love, the one who loves me, shouldn’t be terrified of me. And she’s willing to change some things to make it easier for me.
Salem,
I have been married since 1990.
We had known each other, and dated, for many years prior to our marriage…even lived together for awhile. So we have quite a bit of history together. I tell you that background because I have learned that I changed, emotionally, after Desert Storm and Somalia. (yes, lucky me, I got wonderful tours of both places)
So I would say I was “normal” for the first four to five years of our marriage, but after returning from Somalia, I was disconnected emotionally.
I used to love going dancing with my wife.
I haven’t gone dancing with her since…well, not in many years.
I don’t like crowds.
Crowded dance floors, crowded bars, etc.
I can deal with crowds, I just dislike them intensely.
Jaade-
No offense taken.
You have in fact, nailed my situation dead-on.
She does still love me.
She still tells me that she does.
“emotionally, she’s done”
your words, nearly verbatim.
That’s what she told me…
She’s been waiting for years for me to go get help with my delayed stress…
See, I KNEW I had a problem, but I thought I could handle it myself.
I was wrong.
waddamaroon-
looks like we walked oddly similar paths…
I am glad you are getting a second chance.
I believe you will make the most of it.
Salem?
An update would be a good thing.
Thank you for asking, Stranger. We are going to a counselor this Monday. My stress level has increased exponentially with each passing day. By Monday afternoon, I should be quite ripe for an explosion or implosion. Not sure which. Actually, I’m hoping that I can remain calm and rational and be able to accomplish some things. I really hope he can too but I don’t think he’s going to like much of what I have to say. Of course, I’m sure he has lots to say as well. I’m not claiming to be an angel [small font]is my halo on straight?[/font] or anything. Will post in at some point on Monday and let you know how things went. Thanks again for asking.
Oh poop, I forgot to preview and screwed up the coding. I hate when that happens. See, I can do it right. Actually I didn’t even come close on my own, did I? Live and learn, live and learn.
Will be looking forward to your update on Monday then.
That sounds scary, and stressful for you and your kids to have to worry about setting him off or being around when something else sets him off. I’m so sorry to hear it! I hope whatever happens, you and your kids are okay.
Have you ever thought about getting in contact with your local women’s shelter? They can offer you counselling, safety tips (for if and when you do choose to leave, or if you need to grab the kids and run), etc. I have no idea what the shelter is like in your area, but here, they were vital to me at one point in my life. They never judged me, but rather provided me with practical and emotional support. Here, they even have counselling for men with anger problems/abuse issues.