Not sure if there is a thread on this already (doubtful), but I just finished the latest book in the main Honor Harrington story line, At All Costs, and was wondering if there are any other fans of David Weber on the board…and if so, thoughts on the book and the story line.
-XT
Damn…wrong forum. 
Could I get a mod to move this to CS?
-XT
Another fan here, though I haven’t read the latest, yet (everything but At All Costs and The Spirit of Saganami (if that one’s out yet)). Not much to contribute just yet, but I thought I’d at least let you know you’re not alone.
Incidentally, have you noticed the pattern in the main-series titles? All of the even ones contain “Honor”; the odd ones do not.
Haven’t read it yet. Is it any good? I just started re-reading the whole series, but I seem to have lost most of the books, so its taking me longer than I expected.
I read The Spirit of Saganami, and I definitely recommend you read that one first. There are a bunch of tie ins to the new book, as they both seem to be happening at around the same time, and the events in Spirit come into play in At All Costs.
I actually hadn’t noticed the pattern to be honest. Now that you mention it though…
-XT
Well, for whatever its worth I really liked it. It was along the same line as the other books in the series, so if you liked them you will probably like this one. I THINK I catch a glimmer of where the series is headed and if so its going to be REALLY cool. I can see some epic space battles on the horizon…
-XT
I’ve read it and liked it. Compared to the last one, it had much less politics and more space battles.
Ok, going to try one of those spoiler thingy’s here…brace yourselves:
Definitely. I feel a bit uncomfortable though because now I really like both sides and they are going at each other hammer and tongs…while the really fucking evil guys are getting away with it. And at the end there it was like they both pretty much did one of those double knockouts, where they both throw a huge punch and have it land at the same time…all the while the damn Solarians are getting ready to start getting froggy on BOTH their asses.
-XT
Read it in ARC format in September. And my personal opinion is
The Solarians are not going to be doing anything together. It is going to be fragmenting under the stresses being applied by Manpower and the various sector governors.
Chronos, that has been deliberate, apparently the hardest part is figuring out the Honor titles.
I just got it yesterday, and I’m finishing a John Varley book before I dig into it. I’m being very good about not looking at the spoilers!
Lok: I kind of thought that too for a while but:
[spoiler]Now I think eventually both the Republic and the Manties are going to figure out Mesa is behind this…and when they do they are going to be mega-pissed off, especially the queen. They are going to go after Mesa big time and I suspect that somehow the Solies are going to be dragged in…and their navy is so vast that if even a fraction comes in its going to be an epic scale conflict!
As long as I have this spoiler thing up, what did you guys think of the final battle in At All Costs? I was floored when 2/3rds of Home fleet got wasted…and then when the Republics attack force got wacked. It was hard to grasp that literally MILLIONS died in those few pages…and its hard to grasp what this is going to do to both powers. They have just lost the flower of both their combat power and their trained personnel in one stroke! Gods…[/spoiler]
-XT
Reply to Lok and xtisme :
[spoiler]Here’s my guess on the future : I think the Sollies will attack as a unified force - once, maybe twice. Most likely, it will be a pre-emptive strike pushed by Mesa when they realize HH and friends are likely to show up in orbit in a bad mood.
Their warships are hopelessly obsolete, however, well below what their own tech can produce, much less the Havenites or Manticorans. In fact, I remember a character in AAC commenting that the Sollies had no idea of what they would be getting into if they attacked. Many are literally centuries old. Plus, the Solly Admiralty is a bunch of careerist bureaucrats who haven’t seen a battle in decades, if ever.
My guess is, they will attack - and get utterly annihilated. The Sollies will send a much bigger force - which also gets annihilated. The backlash will be enormous - a bunch of neobarbs slaughtering the “best” Navy in space ?! I think the resulting panic and rage will be the straw that breaks the Union’s back. especially since Maya sector might take the sudden weakness in Solly naval strength as an opportunity to break away. There will be a pause while the various factions upgrade and replace - then all hell breaks loose.
xtisme, I agree with you about the battle of Manticore; what really struck me is that it was exactly what the Mesans wanted to happen. When that comes out, certain people are going to be very unhappy.
Interesting thought : In no small part because of the Queen’s stubborness and desire for revenge, over a million people died; thanks to her attitude, Elizabeth did just what Mesa wanted. Does anyone else think she might abdicate over this, when the truth comes out ?
[/spoiler]
Well, this thread is going to be mostly spoiler boxes looks like. 
[spoiler]
I certainly agree that the Sollies have no idea how far warfare has moved in the last few decades and they are going to be in for a bit of a shock if/when they tangle with either Haven or Manticor.
However, there was a passage in the book where they sort of drew a parallel to Japan and Adm. Yamamoto’s statement that he could run wild for a year or two…and then it would be all down hill. I think in a major war with the Sollies even a combined Manticor alliance and Haven will eventually lose…just from sheer weight of numbers and the fact that eventually the Sollies tech base will kick in. They can afford to give up scores of systems after all while they ramp back up.
As for Elizabeth, I doubt she will abdicate over this…for one thing its totally plausable her and the governments reasoning about whats going on. That its wrong is beside the point. Its not like her decisions are completely irrational or the logic flawed, especially based on what they know. Its the whole fog of war thing and Weber does it really well…even if I AM a bit upset that the two sides are at each others throats while Mesa laughs behind its hand. Oh, I’m sure they will get theirs eventually…but I wants revenge NOW!
In any case, my guess is that there will be a split between Honor and the queen over this, but when the evidence starts really coming out that it wasn’t Haven but Mesa that is behind this whole thing…well, I imagine Elizabeth is going to go ballistic.[/spoiler]
-XT
Reply to xtisme :
[spoiler]Eric Flint, who of course works with Weber a lot commented on a war with an undivided S.U.
Eric Flint : "The fundamental problem is simple. The outer star nations literally do not have enough people to occupy the Solarian League. Even if they beat the League in a war, and hammer their home systems with raids, so what? The League takes twenty years to re-arm, and the rematch bears more resemblance to an avalanche than a ‘war.’ "
What I’m saying is that a sudden, massive military defeat is what will cause the SU to break into factions; remember, it’s not all that stable, and a lot of the outer regions are unwilling members. It would be like something happening to the American military, and the South rearming itself and going for independence again - messy. In Crown of Slaves, we saw that some people expect it to break up, and are preparing to grab what they can. If the Sollie Navy gets smashed, that could be the opportunity they’re waiting for.[/spoiler]
Well, Eric Flint is another of my up and coming favorites these days (if he’d just get on with writing/publishing the next damn Ring of Fire book already!) and if he’s working with Weber he has more insite obviously. I didn’t see things going that way, but if the league is that fragile…I suppose anything is possible. Of course, this begs a few questions:
After the hammering the Republic and the Manties just took and the staggering losses to their most advanced ships and more importantly their best crews its going to take quite a while to get back on their feet. Home Fleet is just gone, and while the Havenites have a lot more strategic reserves they are even stretched thin by the magnitude of their attack…and by their staggering losses. How will both Star Nations cope with a million plus losses in one days fighting? How long with Mesa and the Sollies wait?
-XT
Well, my thinking is:
[spoiler]Haven and Manticore will figure out the Mesa connection, probably from Erewhon and Torch, especially since Zilwicki and Cachat are on the trail. But that is where I see the League breaking. Some of the sector governors and planets will back Mesa, for a variety of reasons. But there are some, like the Maya sector, that will leave the League, either for opportunistic or moral reasons.
And Elizabeth will not abdicate, but it will be hard for her to believe that Haven is not responsible. Of course, when they convince her, Mesa is in really big trouble. :eek: [/spoiler]
Lok
I’ve read several of the Honor Harrington books (not all yet, so I daren’t look at the black boxes), and mostly like them, but I find it annoying that she’s so darn perfect. In everything. Send her through a time warp to the viking age, and she’ll wipe the deck with Olav Tryggvason in a dancing-on-the-oars-while-the-longship-is-being-rowed-contest and beat Egil Skallagrimsson in swordfighting and poetry, while navigating the peculiarities of local honour codes flawlessly. Send her to Victorian England, and she’ll kick ass in an embroidery contest. She’s best, always, and she’s always right.
Bujold’s Vorkosigan series, and Moon’s series on Heris Serrano and Esmay Suiza have some of the similar flavour as Weber’s books, but their heroes have human flaws, and are thus much more believeable and likeable. Moon’s books suffer occasionally under events that aren’t very believable, such as a couple of dozen bad guys managing to beat several thousand good guys, just to make it possible for our good gal to save the day single handedly. (That was hopefully vague enough that I don’t need spoiler boxes, although it is the complete main plot of one of the books )
Well, she is supposed to be a larger-than-life heroic type.
She does have some flaws. Shaky math skills, a bad temper, and ( minor spoiler for War of Honor ) :
an almost pathological tendancy to self-sacrifice ( something her enemies have used to manipulate her; that’s how they got her to Sidemore. )
She’s overcome flaws she started with, like ineptness at politics. Remember, she has a genius or near genius IQ, something like 60 or 70 ( I don’t recall exactly ) years of experience, and the vigor of youth; it’s not surprising she’s impressive.
I picked up some of these books not too long ago at a library sale. Have yet to get around to them though.
Maybe I should pick up the first one and start there…
hildea, her sheer competence at so much does get annoying on occasion, but she does have flaws that cause her problems. Even her good points have caused her the occasional problem, if you have read Field of Dishonor this is quite apparent. And her temper is really nasty if you manage to provoke her enough.
Flutterby, I would recommend that as a starting point. There are a lot of characters and history that accumulate through the series. Just don’t get too attached to too many of the people, the last I heard, there are only 2 that are quaranteed to not die, and Honor isn’t one of them. 
Lok