I know there are currently a lot of security problems and legal problems with the idea of holding a Presidential or General Election using your home computer to vote, but it seems like an idea that is bound to happen - I mean, you can already vote for your favorite wedding cake on MSNBC.
Are there any serious discussions about creating an internet-secure ballot for political elections?
(Foreign Dopers feel free to add any info from your countries.)
Yes, but it won’t be feasible until everyone has been implanted with identity microchips that every computer, grocery check-out and traffic signal can read. The technology is here already. Many places require dogs to have ID chips implanted now and more are opting for it every day.
I really doubt that we are going to get a handle on terrorism until everyone can be identified and tracked in real time, so it isn’t too many years away.
How cool will that be? No more money, no more credit cards, no more ID or passports, no more paperwork. You walk into the 7-11 and there is no clerk. Just pick up what you want and walk out. It is all taken care of. When you walk outside and fall on your head, the paramedics know about it instantly. They already have your high school transcripts and dental records. They knows everything about you including where your itinerary for the past year or two, your vital signs and blood-alcohol level, what kind of a mood you are in and what medications you are taking. And that is all before they arrive.
There won’t be any crime, of course. But then…if there are no more criminals…who are we going to elect to public office???
There has already been one legally binding presidential primary conducted on the Internet in the United States. In 2000, the Arizona Democrats conducted their presidential primary voting online in cooperation with election.com.
I have no idea what may happen with this idea in the future, however.
Hmm, tcburnett, I’m not so sure that that’s a good idea. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket! The potential for abuse by government would be enormous. I’m not part of the ‘black helicopters’ set, but the idea that all one’s wealth and identity might depend on a single database makes me nervous. Not to mention those devout souls who might find unwelcome resonance with Rev. 13-14 (and I say this sincerely, though I am neither a believer nor a Christian-basher).
In any event, to address the OP, this would require a significant loss of anonymity on the net, which may or may not be a good thing.
I have seen comic books deal with these issues, (Judge Dredd mainly) but to enable the populace to vote they fed it through interactive television sets, much like “press the red button to vote” on the sky interactive remotes.
This would be linked to the Electoral roll for the household, enabling a certain amout of votes per television set. It was the only way to have the people actually vote, as the majority were apathetic TV addicts who wouldn’t leave the house.
The possibilities for fraud are immense. Ultimately, there is no way to be sure any voter is who he says he is. Sure you can give out PIN numbers, but that isn’t enough. Consider:
That will always be the biggest hurdle.
Hey, RC:
Interesting list of flaws.
However, methinks you’d just end up swapping one set of frauds for another. There have been massive campaigns of mis-use with the advent of readily-available absentee ballots.
(for some reason, the word “Florida” pops into my mind…)
~VOW
To be completely sure, they’d have to use absolute identifiers, such as fingerprints. I kept envisioning every PC being fitted with a fingerprint-detection system; to access anything, you put your index finger in and are recognized. Then you vote. This would help people who vote on the same machine - the device would recognize fingerprints from Person A and from Person B as being different people and would record the vote as such.
Unfortunately the fingerprint readers are extremely easy to defeat with materials available for cheap from the supermarket.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,13730,00.asp
http://www.globalsources.com/MAGAZINE/SECURITY/0207/N052101.HTM
>> The possibilities for fraud are immense
No greater than voting by mail and probably much less than voting by mail.
>> Sure you can give out PIN numbers, but that isn’t enough
Who said it was? Are you aware that the concept of digital certificates and digital signatures is out there and being used all over all the time? That banks and other financial institutions move millions of dollars by wire? That more and more countries and states recognise legally binding digital signatures? Secure voting by Internet is already feasible and i expect it will be possible sooner than we think. I expect initially it will be voluntary and some people will use it for the convenience while others will still prefer to vote the traditional way.
Blind signatures:
http://ntrg.cs.tcd.ie/mepeirce/Project/Chaum/sciam.html
http://www.ss.ca.gov/digsig/digsig.htm California
http://www.verisign.com/
Let’s see, old people can’t figure out how to correctly punch a hole on a piece of paper, so why don’t we give them a computer to help them vote? My grandfather was an engineer who helped create surface-ship sonar, and he still calls me weekly asking for help with AOHell.
If it comes, it’ll be a long way off.
Hey, instead of the index finger, let’s make it the MIDDLE FINGER.
People will be EAGER to vote, so they can give politicians “the finger.”
I love it!
~VOW
Let me clarify my earlier post. Right now digital signatures are already legally recognised in many states and in Europe. They are recognised as legally binding between private parties in civil transactions and in dealings with the government. There is nothing to stop any government agency accepting them and they would be immediately acceptable and legal in elections without further need to do anything. Legally and practically it could be done tomorrow. What would be problematic, obviously, would be to require everyone to use this technology but once it was widespread enough you could just have voting stations where people can still vote in person but in fact are just terminals.
But then everyone would end up voting for the guy they don’t like! :eek:
sailor - digital signatures are not a panacea. Remember that they have to implimented correctly in order to be secure. The chances of the government doing something correctly are slim to none, but I still think it’s possible. The technology’s been around for ages.
Um friedo, digital signatures are already legally recognised in many jurisdictions. In other words, legally speaking internet voting could be implemented tomorrow with no need for any major change in legislation. And technically it can be done easily. Elelctions involving thousands of voters have already been done by internet (like voting for representatives in multistate companies).
Voting by mail is already in place and voting by internet can already be made safer. The problems people are presenting in this thread are non issues. To say internet voting cannot be done because people can tamper with the mail is kind of silly since we already have voting by mail and in some cases that is the only way you can vote.
In any case nobody is forcing you to vote by internet. If you feel you cannot trust those in your household to steal your password and vote in your name, then you can always go and vote in person. But I am sure pretty soon we will see the convenience of Internet voting.
Thanks for the info…
I still think it has to happen sooner or later.
I mean, if we already do our taxes on line (which I have done now two years in a row), then I am not sure casting a vote on-line would be any more difficult or dangerous.
I think it would increase the number of voters - especially if they do it like in Nevada where you have a full week to vote instead of a day. Turnout increased dramatically because people were able to go vote on the weekend.
[Tina Fey]
Oh, sure! Old people love the Internet! They can’t figure out punch cards, but they love the Internet…
[/Tina Fey]
Ummm…about as “cool” as any totalitarian nightmare scenario.
sailor has it right, the technology is there that could sufficiently secure an Internet-based election (and it doesn’t require implanted microchips or fingerprint readers). Sufficient in that the election would be at least as resistant to fraud as today’s elections are (voter identification, absentee ballots, hanging chads, and the rest of it).
However, widespread Internet voting will only become a reality when the poplace becomes comfortable enough with the technology to allow the beaurocrats to implement such a system. As was recently demonstrated, the system must produce results trusted by the public in order to be effective.
And lel, while living in Fountain Hills, AZ, I was able to participate in that Internet vote for the democratic presidential primary. It took me a total of about five minutes, and that included the time to dial up and logon. And I have resented every multi-hour wait I have had to endure at polling places ever since.
Those goddamn hacks at SNL keep stealing my stuff! Any lawyers wanna help me with a lawsuit?