I’m a bit surprised he went out of character–he’s known for keeping kayfabe in pretty much all of his appearances.
I’ve got my fingers crossed Steve releases his Vince interview as a regular podcast–I only caught part of it, and it seems to have been a lot more interesting than I would have expected.
I suspect the McMahon podcast will be released as a normal podcast by SCSA. Near the end the WWE Network people were telling Steve he only had 1 minute left, and Steve asked Vince if he could stay to answer his last question “eventhough it won’t be on the air, I’d like it for my podcast.” So I think Austin was legit recording for his show. Vince ended up saying “well since I own the network, whoever is in charge, give us 15 more minutes of air time.” I think that was a legit move, the network’s show information only showed the interview scheduled for 60mins and something else scheduled right after, and they went 15 mins past that.
“Two guys wrestling” is the best storyline! There’s been large chunks of my fandom where I just watch PPVs because I don’t have to put up with promos and skits and recaps and all of that stuff that wastes time and makes a 3 hour Raw seem like a 6 hour Raw. It needs to be less “sports entertainment” and more professional wrestling.
That he does, but SCSA always interviews the person and not the personality.
/lana: Drazir, drazir. In your American capitalist society, man exploits man. In Russia, it’s the other way around.
RAW in a nutshell: Bray tries once more to make Ambrose crack, but Dean makes him his bitch instead; Rusev renews feud with Swagger, so he’s jerked back from main event level; Big Show and Erick Rowan are going to throw the steps at each other at TLC; Miz is being all Svengali on Jimmy/Jey’s wife Cameron/Naomi so Jimmy/Jey slaps him; Cena simply closes the laptop to shut up the anonymous GM but the angle still won’t stay dead; Luke Harper continues the fine tradition of the IC champion being a fall guy with a belt; and Paul Heyman tells us Brock Lesnar only appears once a year for the same reason Christmas only comes once a year, meaning two months of promotion to release gas buildup from diverticulitis.
I was kinda digging the idea that they were going to keep the belt away from RAW/PPVs and only use it sparingly, but I think all it’s doing is shining a light on the fact that there are a lot of superstar talents with nothing to do other than pursue a belt.
Cena, Zigs, Rollins, Ambrose, RKO are the top 5 in the company, and the top 5 pursuers of the belt, but without the belt (or multiple belts too) there’s just nothing for them to do, and it’s showing.
I still like my idea of a rotating writing staff, less PPVs, and changing belts/having major stuff happen at RAW. Rusev needs to lose and he needs to lose NOW and he needs to lose on RAW.
They need to create/utilize the network for soemthing big to happen and then NEVER show it on TV “You don’t have the Network? You missed it. Wanna see it? Get the Network” do this with belt changes, heel turns, Rusev losing SOMETHING.
The problem with Rusev being US Champ is that while the angle builds some heat, it keeps him in the mid-card. No more build to being destroyed by SuperCena or challenging for the title but losing to put over someone else. Pretty much someone already there has to beat him for the mid-card title, gaining little in the process.
Of course, I’m going to go back to how they can freshen up Bray Wyatt and switch up his character a bit. Instead of this constant “I see evil in you” promo bit and then losing to people, if they had him win the IC or US titles and spend a year holding it through cheating and mind games, it would give him a new direction and a lot of boost. And it would mean more when someone beat him fair and square.
So… I dunno, Wyatt-Rusev feud with Wyatt stealing the title by cheating on the second PPV and then retaining it the same way on the third?
WWE and wrestling shows in general don’t really consult win-loss records to determine anybody’s headline level. Ric Flair lost a shitload and still main-evented. Bray’s in the same boat. If A-listers wind up in mid-card hell, it’s because audiences don’t care about them any more, and a new schtick won’t help them. Remember the “Real Man” angle for William Regal? Neither does anybody else. I’m guessing there’s currently no room at the top for Rusev, as all the A-listers are currently enmeshed in other storylines.
I think Flair has said he lost vastly more than he won in his career. Winning matches has never been required to get over. Austin largely developed his Stone Cold Steve Austin character to main event status in a long feud with Bret Hart, in which Austin lost to Bret every single time. It’s all in how it’s packaged.
There’s always been divergent opinions on wrestling. I’d say the fans that would be happy seeing three hours of straight wrestling and no story lines are few and far between. But the fans that want to listen to poorly crafted promos and segments for 2 hours out of three are small in number as well.
WWE as recently as the Attitude Era was making everyone care about every belt, and every feud. From low card to main event. Now while people get engrossed with certain wrestlers and occasional feuds, largely they don’t care about any of the belts, and many matches further no purpose whatsoever. I don’t know enough to speculate on how to fix it, but it’s obvious a lot of wrestlers exist for whom there is no role storyline or other wise.
The attitude era was when the belts started to not matter as much. Before then, you knew someone was going to hold it for at least 6 month, maybe years. Once the AE happened, it seemed like they got hot potatoed on a weekly basis.
That’s not how I remember it so much really, I remember the belts mattered immensely in the territories and WWF up through the late 80s. In WCW in the 90s it felt like the World Title mattered off and on, but Hogan often held it without ever appearing on Nitro and that often reduced its importance. Aside from being part of Goldberg’s initial streak I can’t remember the U.S. Title ever mattering. Raven held it for a long time and usually never appeared any later than an hour into Nitro. The WCW Tag Title didn’t seem to matter at all.
Oddly the Cruiserweight title did, and some of WCW’s best wrestlers were involved in feuds for that belt. The TV title was kinda similar, and I suspect that may be because those titles showcased strong wrestlers who weren’t involved in the nonsensical Hogan-sphere.
In WWE I think the Attitude Era (assuming we say it started around WM13) was a resurgence in what had been a trend since the early 90s of the IC and Tag Titles not meaning very much. I remember in the Attitude Era the IC title meant a lot, it featured heavily in Stone Cold’s program with Owen and his ultimate feud with McMahon. Rock and several other big stars were feuding extensively for the IC, and the stakes felt pretty real. The Tag Titles actually seemed to also get play during the Attitude Era for the first time in ages really, since the Tag Titles had always been weak in WWF (they were often just a shade less prominent than the top singles title in many traditional territories, but I never felt that was true in WWF.) Now maybe in the later Attitude Era (I quit watching in 2001 or so, right after Vince bought WCW) the titles stopped mattering, but from 97-01 I remember them being very important and featured prominently in all the major feuds and almost everyone who had a title then is a Hall of Famer today.
12/3 Lucha Underground
Bowannannnannnnhhhhh
Baaaaannnnnhhhhh
Omigod, Pimpanella. Mexico’s version of Adrian Street. The audience seemed to know him and love him. He looked like an old woman stumbling around in the ring, and it was obvious Son of Havoc and Ivalise were overselling for him. He also looked like he genuinely fell a few times and didn’t cushion himself or do anything to break his fall. He did get in some deceptively loud chest chops and at least knew where to position himself for spots. That singlet pulling up his ass crack probably didn’t help his mobility much. Smapti’s probably going to produce factoids that he won tough man competitions and eats razors for breakfast, but omigod his match looked really… awkward. Definitely entertaining, but awkward. It’s also funny that Son of Havoc asked for a “Real Man” to compete against in a really dorky voice.
It seems like whenever LU does a promo vignette for a certain lucha, he’s going to lose his next match. King Cuerno lost after his promo to Drago, then the vice versa happened to Drago. I like the way Cuerno doesn’t do the high-flying lucha moves as much as the others, but acts more like the monster heel who shrugs off attacks and goes in for the kill. It usually doesn’t work for cruiserweights, but it does for him.
Mil Muertes gets another squash over some local nobody. He’s the LU version of Rusev, having the femme fatale valet to magnify his evil ways.
Sexy Star and Fenix had an excellent match with Chavo and Pentagon. The match started off a little low-key, with Chavo bullying SS and establishing reasons for the audience to hate him. Then the action slowly picked up in intensity and built up to an exciting finish. LU does a good job of making their women look as kick-ass as the men.
Mundo, Puma, and Big Ryck will compete for the cash-filled suitcase in a ladder match. I’m pretty sure Cuerto’s goons are going to constantly interfere, but certainly Puma and Mundo will be doing stage dives on them from the top rung. Odalay!
Bowannannnannnnhhhhh
Baaaaannnnnhhhhh
Curse you, Knowed Out, for saying pretty much everything I was going to say.
To comment on Pimpinela Escarlata, he’s an example of what’s known in lucha libre as an exotico - basically, a drag queen who wrestles in a flamboyantly effeminate style, along the lines of a Gorgeous George or Tyler Breeze but turned up to eleven. (Striker using the Miz as a comparison was a good chuckle.) As far as I can tell the word exotico in this context colloquially means “queer”, and many exoticos have in fact been homosexual men, but it’s not a necessity and Wikipedia is silent on whether Mr. Escarlata is. Exoticos generally fall outside the classic heel/babyface paradigm and are an alignment all to themselves, and can wrestle as rudos or tecnicos as needed, but generally do so in a more comedic style than other luchadors. (Although the terms are largely synonymous with heel and babyface, ‘rudo’ can also define a brawler or heavyweight and ‘tecnico’ a technical wrestler.) I don’t know much about Pimpinela’s career (the name is Spanish for “Scarlet Pimpernel”, BTW) except that he’s been around since the '80s and has actually held the AAA Women’s Championship, and held the mixed tag championship alongside a female wrestler.
Apparently, Dean Ambrose’ hoodie was the #1 selling item at WWE on Cyber Monday. Of course, this doesn’t mean he was the #1 merchandise seller, since Cena has a lot more items for sale. But it is good for Ambrose, who has been shunted out of the main event scene lately.
I got a kick out of Pimpanela, myself. (Disclosure: Bi male.) The nice thing is, for all that it was super campy and over the top, everyone embraced it–from Pimpanela through to the announcers to the crowd. The only one who didn’t was Son of Havoc, and he was the heel and paid for it. Sure, Pimpy was old and slow, but I’m used to a little bit of that on this show as various lucha libre legends pass through to give it legitimacy. I guess I dig (based entirely on watching LU and generalizing from there) lucha libre’s willingness to embrace and celebrate all sorts of things–minis, exoticos, ACTUAL SHOOT DRAGONS WHO HAVE BECOME MEN (see below), dudes who wear deer heads on their heads, whatever. Lucha seems to be a great place to let your freak flag fly, so to speak, and I’m totally down with that.
Anyway, you all missed the biggest point of this show, and I can’t say it any better than Brandon Stroud over at Uproxx said it:
Go check it out. Plus, the Best/Worsts for Raw, Smackdown, and NXT are worth checking out as well. (Also, I promise I am neither Brandon Stroud nor employed by him.)
Good article LawMonkey. LU makes their luchas out to be mythological characters who come to the ring to prove their worth as fighters. So yes, Drago is an actual dragon, just like Muertes is actually a demon/ghost, Puma is an animist who grew up in the mean streets of LA (he’s actually from Illinois), Cuerno is part panther, and so forth.
Pimpinella reminds me of the Exotic Adrian Street, a British wrestler from the 80’s. He worked in the NWA in Florida, the Carolinas, and Texas. He had long blond hair he tied in tassels, wore lipstick and mascara, and pranced and skipped around the ring. He’d kiss his opponents on the lips and put them out with sleeper holds, then get his assistant Miss Linda to come in with a makeup kit so they could paint up the fallen opponent. The dude was otherwise straight; he just loved to freak people out.
I remember reading an interview with Jimmy Hart a short time ago, who managed Adrian Adonis in the WWF, who also had a flamboyantly gay gimmick. He said that type of thing can’t be done today because it’s not cool to mock gays any more. He might be right, since WWE is more mainstream and subject to criticism (and decreased revenue) if it looks like they’re targeting a minority group.
Anyhoo, NXT produced another floater episode to whet our appetites for ®Evolution next week. I hope Baron vs Bull doesn’t turn out to be another 10-second match, but it probably will because it would be funny.
I’m wondering if Kevin Owens is going to be a heel since his vignettes talk about how other guys he wrestled in his indy career got chosen before him. Is he going to target them to vindicate himself? He’s been a heel before, but not usually for long, because the audience liked his skill too much. Hideo and Finn debuted as faces, so maybe Owens will balance out the karmic scales.
I’m sure T-Cups is not liking his girl Bayley getting punked out again, but maybe she’ll get revenge next week and WWE merchandising will start selling Tube Bayleys.
I flew in late last night from an interview I had in Tampa, so I haven’t watched NXT yet. I was getting a play-by-play from my girlfriend tho and she was telling me the shenanigans surrounding Bayley. Given that Charlotte is still the champ, and she saves Bayley all the time, I hope this doesn’t change Bayley’s character into some kind of obsessive fan-girl because I can see it going that route.
Regardless, I’ll just be waiting until something snaps in that poor girls brain and she just goes apeshit on Sasha.
Her knee looked bad though! I wonder if she needs some kind of physical therapy, maybe involving having her legs straight out…
I dunno, Charlotte will probably be called up soon and Bayley won’t, so that will leave her on her own for a while.
I have to say the buildup to Takeover 3: Season of the Witch has been… underwhelming. Aside from the Neville/Zayn feud, they haven’t really developed the plot threads too much, which is weird considering that the writers of NXT get to film four one-hour episodes at a time and they have a whole month between tapings to plan it out, as opposed to the fly-by-the-seat-of-our-pants main roster crew who have to book 6.5 hours of product every week, and sometimes three supercards in a six-week period. Maybe they’re deliberately holding back on this one because they don’t want the NXT show to outshine TLC. The rumor I’ve heard, though, is that Takeover 4: The Quest For Peace will take place in the Bay Area on WrestleMania week, and if that’s true, I expect them to pull out all the stops for that one.
Anyway, here’s my predictions based on the matches that have been announced (or not announced but likely to occur) at Takeover 3: Revenge of the Sith;
Adrian Neville vs. Sami Zayn for the NXT Championship, Zayn will quit if he loses. Zayn obviously isn’t going to quit - he has nowhere to go but up at this point, and this match is the natural blowoff for the whole “road to redemption” storyline they’ve been doing for him. He’s going to beat Neville and it’s going to be awesome. We may or may not see some clandestine interference by Tyson Kidd so he can get out of that “no more title shots for as long as Neville is champion” stipulation, thereby setting up Zayn vs. Kidd for Takeover 4: NXT Takes Manhattan.
The Vaudevillians vs. the Lucha Dragons for the tag titles. I stand by the opinion I expressed a few months ago that the Lucha Dragons are transitional champions - the long-term goal is to build Kallisto as a singles performer so he can take the place Rey left on the main roster card, and putting him with Sin Cara II (and El Local/Ricardo Rodriguez before that) was done to help him transition from duos/trios wrestling in AAA to the WWE style. The Vaudevillians, meanwhile, are in a pretty golden position of being two accomplished singles wrestlers who work well together as a tag team, and are over with the crowd despite the fact that they’re technically heels. I say they get the win and the belts here, and the Lucha Dragons are quietly broken up in the near future so Kallisto can start his singles run.
Charlotte vs. Sasha Banks for the women’s title. I was wrong last time when I predicted Charlotte would drop the belt to Bayley, but I’m gonna stick to my guns here and say that this is the show where she drops the belt. Charlotte is destined for the main roster sooner than later, and her heel-to-face transition has been managed just right to allow her to drop the belt to Sasha (possibly with an assist from Becky Lynch) and leave NXT on top before she shows up as a contender to the Divas title on the main roster. From there, the script practically writes itself to set up Sasha/Bayley for the title at Takeover 4: The Voyage Home.
Hideo Itami and Finn Balor vs. the Ascension. This one has been a pretty slow build - almost too slow, IMO. We’ve seen very little actual ring action from Kenta or Devitt over the past few months, which means this match needs to be an absolute barnburner. These two need to show the WWE audience exactly why they became so highly acclaimed in Japan and on the indy circuit. Likewise, this is probably the last hurrah for the Ascension in NXT, and they need to put on the best show they possibly can to set up for their inevitable main roster debut. I give the victory in this one to Hideo and Balor.
The debut of Kevin Owens. Up until just before he signed with WWE, the former Kevin Steen was playing a heel in Ring of Honor as a member of a Shield-like trio called “the Decade”, whose gimmick was that they were guys who’d been in ROH since the beginning and had had enough of guys like AJ Styles or Jay Lethal or Chris Hero who took off for NXT/TNA and then came back when that didn’t work out for them and expected to steal the spotlight once again. My feeling is that Kevin is going to debut as a heel here as well. His promos so far have been painting him as a blue-collar guy who decided that fighting and winning was the best way he could take care of his family - I could see that developing in an anti-hero sort of way where he’s willing to do anything to anyone, damn the consequences, as long as he wins the match.
Baron Corbin vs. Bull Dempsey - not confirmed, but likely to happen. Both of these guys have pretty much extensively wrestled squash matches thus far. This needs to be the first time they have a match that doesn’t end quickly. I’d like to see Corbin immediately go on the offensive and give Bull the End of Days and a pin - which he kicks out of, then Bull takes him down, goes for the flying headbutt, and pins him - which is also kicked out of, and from there it becomes a test of endurance to see which one can keep going until the other one is worn out. I give the win to Corbin on this one - he’s got the kind of tall and muscular build that makes Vince’s pants feel funny, and the attitude to match, and he’ll likely go far in the future.
There’ll likely be at least one more match in addition to those, and I know of no rumors or expert speculation on what it might be. I’d like to see something with Marcus Luis to further build his new psycho babyface persona - possibly a rematch with Tyler Breeze? Corey Graves, who’s been out of action for several months due to a concussion, is set to appear on the pre-show - he’ll either be announcing his retirement, or making a comeback of some sort. Either way I look forward to it, because I was really enjoying him as a heel before his disappearance.
Your predictions sound on the money Smapti, but I’m not too sure about Callisto, mainly because of the presence of Los Matadores & El Torito in the main roster, and the possible return on Ray Mysterio. I don’t think WWE wants to incorporate a lucha division per se, and if Callisto gets called up, then so would Sin Cara by association, and the latter probably doesn’t want to return to midcard jobber hell.
The Vaudevillains may be over now, but they’re a novelty act, and novelty acts eventually become tiresome. Besides, the mini Lucha Dragons need the opportunity to give that dastardly duo their just desserts.
I haven’t seen Corey Graves in action. Maybe he had a steel plate put in his head to keep from getting any more concussions. Him starting the show by announcing his retirement would be a downer, so maybe it will be a trick like the one Mark Henry played on John Cena.