Its.....the Wrestling Thread!

I know from off-hand comments that I’m not the only person on this board who watches Professional Wrestling (yes, I know it’s scripted, threadshit elsewhere), so I thought I’d start a catch-all Cafe thread for discussion.


I dunno, I’m conflicted. I think they continue to shoot themselves in the foot with the same kind of Old Territory locker room booking games that are ill suited to a modern multi-national entertainment company. I’m also not thrilled with the continuation of VKM’s Superman fetish. Hogan, Austin, Cena. Supermen who “overcome the odds” to win every time. Hint: If they win every time, there are no “odds” to overcome. I’m obviously not the average fan, because I was bored and irritated with Hogan always winning, I was bored and angry with Austin always winning (I kept looking at those leg braces and thinking that in a real world, his opponents would cripple his ass for life), and I’m bored and really fucking tired of Superman Cena popping up from a DDT on a concrete floor to immediately defeat two men to end a PPV. Not that I’ve ever payed for a PPV, because I haven’t.

That being said, I tend to like the heels and underdogs. Chris Jericho is the man. The best in the world at what he does is exactly that - he draws heat and makes the other guy look good. No other heel does that. They’re more concerned with making themselves look good. I wanted to see Kofi Kingston get a push, but he got buried and marginalized after Orton got mad at him for not properly selling the whole ‘pounding on the mat’ display. I like the Miz, because he works his ass off. Hell, I even like the Nexus angle, even if they’ve made some huge mistakes with it, because it puts six guys who otherwise wouldn’t get a shot, into the spotlight.

Lots of good talent, horribly booked. AJ Styles is great. Samoa Joe is good too, but may not be coming back. Given how often they’ve misused and repackaged him, I wouldn’t blame him. They lost Awesome Kong, who they really needed, lost Gail Kim, mismanaged the only worthwhile Women’s Division on the planet. They have a very bad habit of trying to repackage people into copies of older wrestlers, such as the current packaging of AJ Styles.

I was also incredibly irritated by the entry of Hogan and his CHEAP (Cronies of Hogan Employment Assistance Program) booking. Who the fuck wanted to see The Nasty Boys or the second coming of Val Venis? I only thank god I wasn’t subjected to the return of Brutus Beefcake, or I would have given up on TNA completely.

That being said, Beer Money and The Motor City Machine Guns was a freaking awesome series of incredible matches. Kurt Angle gives them his heart and soul every week, and it shows. The X division shines, when it is given the chance. Which unfortunately, is not often these days.

I got more to say, but I want to open with my usual whining and complaining :stuck_out_tongue: and see where we go from here.

Like yourself Chimera I’m not sure how active this thread will be but I’m a huge pro wrestling fan and I feel the need to at least check in whenever one gets posted. :stuck_out_tongue:


I have serious issues with the direction the WWE is going in these days and I haven’t regularly followed Raw or Smackdown since before Wrestlemania this year. It’s a regular problem for them, trying to balance pushing new talent with maintaining profit margins as a publicly traded company, but they’re never consistent with young workers. I like Kofi, Miz, Morrison, and Danielson, (Daniel Bryan), is probably the best wrestler working in NA today. On the other hand, I have no idea why Sheamus gets pushed the way he does. (Yeah, I’m aware of the HHH relationship, I’m partially being facetious), I see no charisma or upside with him. He’s now a two time world’s champion and it boggles my mind.

FTR I despise Hogan and have no particular attachment with Cena, (he’s good, but he’s been an overpushed upper card talent since '04 or '05) but I do not in any way relate Steve Austin to those two. Stone Cold is one of the greatest talents of the modern age and had he not been sidelined with serious injuries and early retirement we’d be mentioning him in the same breath as Flair, Sammartino, Rhodes, Hart, Michaels or anyone else you care to mention. Steve’s one of the greatest of all time.


TNA has had serious booking issues for a long time because of their attempts to balance ‘TNA branded’ stars, (Joe, Styles), with established names, (Jarret and Sting, and more recently Hogan), and their need to expand in a WWE dominated market. They want to be considered the ‘alternative’ to the WWE as WCW was in the early and mid 90’s, but they don’t have the name recognition of the NWA to draw on the way WCW did at the time. And without Ted Turner style money to plunder WWE’s roster the way WCW did with the Nitro initiative in in the mid 90’s they’ll never get there.

I liked TNA a lot circa 2005, 2006 with the X division matches between Joe, Styles and Chris Daniels and toss in the likes of Dutt, Sabin, and Shelley, but outside of that they came across as an ‘also ran’ compared to WWF, WCW, and ECW ten years earlier. Main Event matches involving a rebranded NAO, Jarret, Sting, Dudleys, Raven and other castoffs weren’t compelling to me.

A few years back I was salivating over what an Angle/Booker/Styles/Joe match would look like, but even that’s played out at this point.

I’ve heard good things about the series of MCMG/BM matches that have happened recently and I’ll probably track those down at some point.


Jeff Hardy’s in TNA right now isn’t he? I’ve always had a soft spot for Jeff. How’s he faring right now?

And is Joe unhappy with TNA management at the moment? I wasn’t aware of that. Does this have to do with the inevitable Hogan/Bischoff invasion? Is he thinking about jumping?

Intelligent, neutral criticism of the business is hard to come by on the net and I always find myself interested when a thread pops up here on the board. I’ll definitely be watching the thread. Oakminster’s probably the most knowledgeable wrestling fan on the board, so I’ll be waiting for his take on the current scene.

10 years ago I would have been all over this thread, but alas I don’t watch wrestling anymore. Used to watch it back in the days of the 2nd great wrestling revival, the so-called “Attitude” era beginning with the Hall and Nash showing up on WCW Nitro and concluding when Austin and the Rock left the WWE. Those were the days

Glad to see Jericho’s still doing well. He used to be one of those up-and-comers that kept getting pushed aside as HHH had to have his 5th, 6th, and 7th title runs. I heard he had some issues with HHH and all the backstage drama cause by those guys and their friends (HBK, Sean something [Syxx, the former 123 Kid], Chyna)

Heard the Undertaker’s still wrestling. Good for him, was always my favorite back in the days

Occasionally I’ll catch a commercial for Smackdown or RAW on TV that gives me glimpses into what’s going on. I know that despite his books and all of the bitterness due to injuries and bad storylines, Mick Foley jumped around the WWE and TNA after his supposed retirement

Ric Flair’s back (or was back) because he needed money?

And apparently Shawn Michaels got his back surgery got better and came back to wrestle for a few more years. I remember him and Austin fighting in that match where he was clearly in a lot of pain, dropping the title to him and retiring for a long while

I hate Hogan. Him and his cronies ruined what could have been a great WWE/WCW rivalry. When I used to follow wrestling, I REALLY followed it. I read all of the gossip blogs and the backstage stuff. Gloated back and forth over the ratings and how Nitro beat RAW and then they had that great back and forth for a few years until Austin and WWE took firm control and then eventually bought WCW from Ted Turner

I heard Goldberg was a prick, and Torrie Wilson, while in WCW, swore she’d never do the trashy T&A stuff that McMahon was pioneering on RAW, then she came over to the WWE and promptly had a Playboy spread

You never hear much about permanent retirement in wrestling. Hell, if Bret Hart can forgive McMahon for what happened to Owen, I suppose anything can happen and only death can stop them from coming back

Speaking of which, the last big names I know who died were Eddie Guerrero, Bam Bam Bigelow, Mr. Perfect, and Yokozuna. Shame that Hogan’s still around, and I’ve always wished somebody would simply kill Nash. It’s odd how karma works where Eddie’s dead and Chris Benoit killed himself and his family yet that insane nut The Warrior is still alive (I think)

Great great memories but I’m afraid my time with wrestling is over like Roddy Piper’s wrestling days…

I grew up on JCP, NWA, and WCW, and though I still follow the sport, I don’t watch it very often. My heroes growing up were Sting, the Steiners, and Steamboat, and I also enjoyed Demolition, Mr. Perfect, and Ted DiBiase in the WWF even though I was never much of fan of their promotion. Even as a kid during the height of Hulkamania, I hated Hulk Hogan, and was only interested in the Ultimate Warrior because of his Blade Runner days with Sting.

I stopped watching during the early nineties, and missed the early days of the nWo. I came back into it around '98, right when WCW started going to hell, but since it was the promotion of my childhood, I stuck it out. There was a lot of shit during those days, but there was a lot of good stuff, too. The cruiserweight division was still strong, I enjoyed the Wolfpac’s run, I loved Team Canada, and though I missed surfer Sting, I still liked him as the Crow as well.

When Vince bought WCW and ECW in 2001, I tried sticking it out, but stopped watching around 2003 and have mostly stayed away the past seven years, though I still watch the occasional show, and follow events online with my current favorite performers being Jericho, Edge, and Angle.

“Old Territory locker room booking” is exactly what Vince does not do. Nothing about his product is old school in any meaningful sense of the world. Old school is Mid South/UWF, Florida, Georgia, Memphis, Dallas, St. Louis, Central States, PNW, L.A., San Francisco, AWA, San Antonio…that kind of thing died out in the nineties. If we don’t count the abomination WCW became, the last real old school promotion was probably Smoky Mountain. More generous critics than I might even include Heyman’s ECW.

Sheamus’ push is no mystery to me. WWE desperately needed a new upper card player, and he got picked. Even without the Triple H connection, it shouldn’t be hard to see why. Big Package of Muscles. Vince masturbates to the very idea of these kind of guys as his champions.

Austin - oh I agree that he’s one of the greats of all time, but I still hate the WWE superman booking, where even after he was no longer physically capable of wrestling, every single guy they had trembled in fear of him. Even fat old me would be looking at those leg braces and saying “Sure, you’ll kick my ass into a coma, but I’ll make sure you never walk again.”

Hardy is one of the upper midcard guys in TNA. His multiple felony drug trial keeps getting postponed. We’ll see how that goes, and how much time he gets. With all the charges against him, I just don’t see him walking away scot free.

Joe apparently stormed the production truck after the announcer gave away the time remaining in a time-limit match, which he felt gave away the finish and had argued very hard against beforehand. I don’t read every site or every article, so I’m not clear on whether he hasn’t returned or whether they’ve not asked him to return. I dunno, it would seem par for the course with Dixie Carter’s management style. Multiple top players becoming very angry with management and walking off, demanding their release or even openly questioning management in the media (AJ Styles) is a sign that you’re doing something wrong, and an ego based “if you don’t like it, take a hike” management attitude isn’t the proper way to run a personality based entertainment company.

What I meant by that was (and I deleted that part from the OP before posting) the idea of publickly punishing and embarassing your people to put them in their place. (Bad gimmicks, embarassing angles, etc) In an era where you only have so much TV time, it would seem to me that the proper way to punish people is to NOT put them on TV.

But it’s exactly the way to run a pro wrestling company. One booker, or at least one guy with absolute veto power over a booking committee. You think AJ Styles woulda worked another night for Ole Anderson back in the day? Or Bill Watts? Or Eddie Graham?


R.I.P. Kayfabe.

‘Attitude’ was a golden age, (second or third, depending on how you count), with so much great talent divided among the three main companies. Austin and Rock were a latter day Hogan/Flair, with the added advantage of being in the same company.

Taker’s probably THE veteran voice in the locker room at this point. As a worker I think he’s better now than he was 10 years ago, and 90% probably grew up watching him. He seems like good guy from what I can tell and has always been more than fair given the level of influence he’s he wielded.

That said… Taker’s retirement match is close at hand, and I’ll be sorry to see him go.

He probably needed the money honestly. Last I knew he was doing matches in TNA after his ‘retirement’ at Wrestlemania a few years back. Ric will most likely still be working until his physical condition no longer allows it. I don’t think he can walk away from the rush of performing, much like Verne or Terry.

Shawn ‘unretired’ in 2002 after working a match with HHH. (It was really, really good). He worked until earlier this year when he lost a retirement match against Taker. He still claims his ‘retirement’ is legitimate, I have my doubts that we won’t see him in ring again.

Given the nature of the business, this is correct. Real retirement is a matter of physical necessity, integrity, and other opportunities, not performance. If guys like Hogan and Flair can still perform anyone can. It’s what make a lot of us think Shawn will resurface eventually. Rock probably won’t because he’s forged a legitimate movie career, even though he’s still more than capable of wrestling.

Wrestlers dieing young is a very real problem these days. The latest was Lance Cade, who died at the age of 29 from, apparently at least, heart failure. This just happened a few days ago.

Samoa Joe got a 90-day suspension from TNA. I believe he’s under contract with TNA until somewhere in 2011, so unless he gets himself fired, he’s not going anywhere. Paul Heyman, in an article talking about why he isn’t going to TNA, mentioned that in last week’s Impact featured a wrestler in his 50’s (Hogan) putting over a group in their 40s (ECW alumni) and then getting jumped and bloodied by a group lead by someone in his 60s (Flair).

I have no real problem with Sheamus at the moment, he was pushed perhaps too fast in his first run, but I think he’s doing fine now, fella. And the Nexus storyline has been pretty good, they seem to be doing their best to make new stars.

WWE has apparently just signed ROH champ Tyler Black, hopefully they can inject some personality into him. ROH apparently just changed bookers from Adam Pearce to Delirious, one presumes they won’t keep kayfabe to the point where his booking orders are all in gibberish :slight_smile: .

Oh no, a wrestling thread on a non-wrestling message board. This should be worth a few yuks.

Wrestlin’ died in the ass when Austin and The Rock left for greener pastures. The ‘attitude era’ is long gone, replaced by these toddler panderers that can’t even wrestler, let alone entertain, like Cena and 619er. This ‘PG era’ is a bore for anyone old enough to know WWF once meant something other than World Wildlife Fund.

At least they could have kept the kitsch, campy sideshows going… but no. Even the mere implication that wrestling may be ‘gay’ doesn’t fall within the bounds of parental guidance. The gimmicks too are face-palm pathetic nowadays - The Miz is… “AAAAWWWWESOME!!”…?! :dubious:


The only shining light may come in the form of video games. WWE All-Stars (Ps3, 360, Wii, Ps2, DS - Q1 2010) looks to be catering for the arcade/fight-game reared crowed, in lieu of that up-chuck series SvR - an utter embarrassment to the entertainment medium and source material alike. This might elicit some interest in the WWE again from those already past puberty and maybe the scripts/gimmicks will follow suit. Maybe…

Perhaps not. But they would have moved to another territory and been a star for that guy instead of the guy who couldn’t book his head out of his ass.

I loved the parity back in those days even though I couldn’t get ECW on cable and had to switch back and forth between Nitro and RAW. The products were different enough to make me crave my weekly Monday nights of 5 hours of combined wrestling. In those days, both shows went over the time limit all the time so that you know when 10 or 11pm rolled around and the match is still going on, something was going to happen. It was like a season of 24, every episode ended with a cliffhanger and Jim Ross going “My god can you believe that?!?”. By the way, is old JR and Lawler still calling the shows?

I heard he went back to his Dead Man persona a couple years ago. I hope he stays like that. It’s always been the most awesome one he’s had

Sometimes I can’t help but think about the missed opportunities. I heard Kurt Angle’s still working even though the last time I heard about him, he “retired” from the WWE due to injuries. Modern medicine works wonders, I guess. If I were him, I’d be more pissed about the whole buildup to his first feud with HHH. At the time, HHH and Stephanie McMahon were just becoming an item, both in storylines and in real life. There was a push of Kurt to the upper card because Steph had made a comment that he was “cute” this one time. The match between him and HHH culminated at some big PPV where everyone including the wrestling blogs thought Steph was going to do a face turn and side with Kurt, but she ended up staying with HHH instead. My friends and I thought it was a huge huge mistake, as they had this credible face who could stand up to HHH but was pretty much abused by him during every encounter.

Are those two still a couple? Didn’t they get married? Is Steph still cute and appears on TV?

I think I saw, maybe only a month or two ago, a promo where Bret returned. I actually caught the end of that show. Him and Vince were in the ring and about to make up or something, then Vince kicked him in the balls. What’s going on with that storyline? And has Bret made any interviews or said anything about coming back to the WWE?

I don’t even know who that was. His age reminds me of a kid named Louie Spicolli, who, I think, was some kind of NWO prodigy that was getting a mild push before his death way back in the late 90’s. I think this was around the time Brian Pillman died too. Also, I remember the British Bulldog Davy Boy Smith also dying around that time. So many lost…

You realize, of course, that Ole, Watts, and Graham are generally recognized as some of the best bookers in the history of the business, right?

JR had another bout of Bell’s Palsy and is no longer broadcasting, though he is still with the WWE in some sort of talent evaluation role. Lawler and Cole are now broadcasting Raw, with Cole beginning to embrace the heel announcer role since nobody really likes him anyway.

Steph and HHH are still married, have, I think, 2 kids now. She still looked good last I saw he onscreen, but she hasn’t appeared much recently, probably for the best since she’s head of the writing team.

Bret is indeed back with the WWE, Bret came back, had a feud with Vince, which ended at Wrestlemania with the entire Hart family beating Vince down. Bret was the Raw GM for a little bit, and was just in a match at Summerslam as part of the Nexus vs Raw storyline. He can’t really go anymore, so when he does get used, they pretty much have to design around his limitations.

I’m sorry, were you saying something? I have a tendency to jet off to Idontgiveafuckistan when people start insisting that I felate the memory or reputation of their idols.

To me this is two different things, and the old ways of doing business are no longer appropriate in the current world. You can be the best in the world in your industry, but if you treat your people like shit, you deserve whatever misfortune befalls you. The number of top players who would, in previous years have been considered TNA through and through, but have left or begun openly criticizing management is a MAJOR alarm bell for the company and it’s mismanagement. The bad executive says “tough shit, my company, shut up or leave”. The good executive who holds the company above their own ego says “there’s something wrong here and we need to address it”.

Glad Bret Hart came back for a while, for the sake of all involved. Not just the three primaries (Bret, Vince, Shawn), but all us fans, who can finally be free of the Ghost of the Montreal Screwjob. I never thought Bret was the best in the world, but I’m glad to see him get another shot to earn a few bucks and release his ghosts.

Enjoying seeing Mr. Anderson shine in TNA as a tweener. The ‘asshole’ chants are funny as hell and something you’d never see WWE embracing.

Never been into Shannon Moore and his look is a big negative to me, but taking him and Jesse Neil and putting them together as a real tag team is a textbook in building new tag teams and making stars. They’re not top stars, but they’re certainly credible in a very short amount of time. Now if only WWE would get back to having more than one or two tag teams.

I keep looking at John Morrison and asking what the hell is happening backstage to keep holding him back, or just who it is has it in for him. I expected more out of him.

Have always felt they could do more with Dolph Ziggler. He’s only now getting a small push.

Yeah, I’m resurrecting the thread as I haven’t been around in a few days, my apologies. :stuck_out_tongue:

As mentioned, JR was hit with another bout of BP that took him out of action. He hasn’t been back since and Vince seems to be moving ahead with Cole as his PBP guy and standardizing the product with the likes of Stryker and Grisham. I hate how everyone sounds the same now.

About Angle…

My understanding is that he had, (maybe still has…), serious issues with his neck and back. He underwent the ‘quick fix’ surgery that Austin and Lita did that got them an early retirement after a couple of years.

When he was asked to accept a lighter schedule he refused and went to TNA.

Stephanie and HHH got married for real, (legit), and have had two children since that time. Steph has avoided the the spotlight for sometime and rarely shows up on television.

Given Shane’s departure the two are the heirs apparent to the WWE empire.

If HHH can transition from being a wrestler to being an authority figure, I don’t think this is entirely a bad thing.

Yeah. Bret’s back. On and off.

As far as I know he’s working under a handshake contract at this point. (His written contract expired in April I think.) He came back to bury the hatchet with Shawn and Vince. He’s done that and went to back the Hart dynasty 2.0 and the WWE wrestlers against the Nexus stable.

There’s a recent interview where they say he sounds more like a backstage guy than an active wrestler, but I dunno. This is the guy who undercuts up-and-coming wrestlers with nasty on-air comments that go beyond in-character rivalry.