Pro-Wrestling.

Cafe Society
1

So I was reading the Guilty Pleasures thread and came across D_Odds post about it. And that made me think about how I’ve never seen a thread on here about it.

And yeah yeah yeah, I know it’s not really a sport. I know it’s entertainment–so for those of you who only have to say “Oh, it’s all fake”, I would hope you would just save your post–but I used to be such a huge fan of the WWE (Then the WWF).

So this thread isn’t for the discussion of how real or fake it is…it’s for the fans and ex-fans, like me, who used to watch every Monday Night RAW and Thursday SmackDown! and yeah, I have to admit, sometimes a Sunday Night Heat or two. And I’d make sure to get all the Pay Per Views. My personal favorite was always the Royal Rumble.
I first started watching when I was about 8 or 9. This was back about 1988 and it was always WWF I’d be watching. Even when WCW grew and the ratings war began, I just couldn’t get into WCW (although, by all means, if you were a fan, don’t hesitate to post). So I’d sit and watch the superstars around that time like the Ultimate Warrior and the Macho Man Randy Savage as they filled my screen up. And then there was the biggest one back then…good ol’ Hulk Hogan. On the other side of the faction, the heels…ohhh that Million Dollar Man and that Rick Rude and oohh, even Andre had the heat going for him for awhile.

Then time went by and things changed. The Rockers broke up and Shawn Michaels went his own way and to singledom. Bret “The Hitman” Hart too left the Hart Foundation. The British Bulldog grew his hair out, a classic sign he was a face (when he was a heel he always seemed to have it short). Yokozuna was a force to be reckoned with…and the Big Bossman was making sure the scum were doing hard time. Then there was this new guy who didn’t ever feel any pain. Man, the Undertaker I loved. And today, he’s still one of my favorites when I can tune in.

And still it evolved. New wrestlers like Razor Ramon and Crush (originally a new member of Demolition) and Doink the Clown came in. Silly gimmicks like Duke “The Dumpster” Drosse and Henry O Godwin. Even current wrestlers debuted like a blueblood Hunter Hearst Helmsley, who, when I look back at matches back then, looks surprisingly small and thin.

And still, changes happened. Jeff Jarret and the Roadie. A new “Stone Cold” Steve Austin who was, at first, known as The Ringmaster. Golddust, who everyone knew was dying to come out of the closet. Even a young Dwyane Johnson who joined a stable back then called the Nation of Domination.

Man the stables. Some I really enjoyed. I always liked a group of wrestlers that always backed each other up.

Best stable I EVER saw: The Corporate Ministry. This was two groups, at the time, who joined forces (around early 1999). The Corporation, headed by the evil Vince McMahon…and the Ministry, headed by a dark Undertaker.

Second best: Right to Censor I really, really enjoyed for some reason when they were around.

But back then, around the time I’m still talking about, the two main stables were the Nation and D-Generation X. EVERYONE who was anyone loved DX and they seem to be one of the longest running groups now (so I’ve heard).

And time went on and we got people like Edge coming in and later his “brother” Christian. The Dudley Boyz and the Hardy Boys. People like Ken Shamrock and Steve Blackman and the Big Show.

And then it happened. The WWF bought out WCW. And they got a huge list of more wrestlers on their show. So many they had to divide everyone up into two seperate shows…where RAW and Smackdown used to be continuous of one another…it now featured storylines and wrestlers that were just on those shows specifically.

That’s about the time I stopped watching.

Oh, don’t get me wrong…I’ve kept up, here and there, with new faces coming in and some storylines and kept updated still, but I haven’t watched it longer than 4 months regularly as of yet for a long time.
So anyway…this thread is for those of you like me. Who were or are fans of pro-wrestling, however “fake” some people may call it. I dunno…I don’t think Mick Foley would tell you it was very fake.

Who were some of your favorite wrestlers? Who are today, if you still watch? Who were some even if it extends back beyond my watching? Tag teams? Matches? Stables? Name your favorites and tell me some stories about shows you’ve seen, storylines you remember and loved, moments you witnessed or even things you saw in person. I’d love to hear them. :slight_smile:

2

I used to be a pro wrestler. It is choreographed to the last step, but it can be quite painful. When couple of 300 pounders go crashing into each other, it causes quite an impact, “fake” or not.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I remember the old days with Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Junk Yard Dog, Andre the Giant, Randy “The Macho Man” Savage, etc. Now THAT was rasslin’!

One funny story - Bobby “The Brain” Heenan was being interviewed and he told a story about him and Andre the Giant getting on a plane. It was around 9:00am and Andre was already half sloshed. The stewardess comes over and Andre asks for a screwdriver. She comes back with an actual Black and Decker screwdriver! Andre looks at her and says, “What would you have done if I asked for a Bloody Mary?”

So Bobby takes her aside and says, “Hon, I’m gonna give you some advice that will help you along with your career. When a man who is 7’5” and 500 pounds gets on an airplane, drunk, at 9:00 in the morning, DON’T bring him tools!"

3

Well, my wrestling fandom dates back over a decade from when yours started. At first I would watch the show on Saturday afternoon on TV - probably the first series I wouldn’t miss that wasn’t driven by my parents watching habits. It was hard to follow at the time - I was watching the WWWF (not a typo), Bruno Sammartino was champion, followed by Superstar Billy Graham as the transition champion, followed by Bob Backlund. Pedro Morales was the Intercontinental Champion, and there were a regular string of great tag teams - The Samoans, the Moondogs, Mr. Fuji and whomever he was teaming with (such as Prof. Tanaka and Mr. Saito). It was the heydey of the managers - Classy Freddy Blassy & the Grand Wizard were my ‘favorites’ to hate. I also remember a very young Curt Hennig, who was used as an ‘enhancement’ talent (aka jobber who would get some offense), and Hulk Hogan’s first WWF-run as a heel, managed by the Grand Wizard and feuding with Bob Backlund and Andre the Giant.

My fandom really exploded when I got cable in the early 80s and I was introduced to southern wrestling. The NWA was the highlight on Georgia Championship Wrestling, which accounted for about 4 hours of weekend TV time on Ted Turner’s young network. There I was introduced to the best and most entertaining wrestler I have ever had the pleasure of watching - Ric Flair. Gordon Solie called the matches, and today’s announcers, when asked, always cite him as the announcer they want to be when they grow up (even Jim Ross). Watching GCW made the WWF shows much less entertaining, but it also raised the bar for McMahon and benefitted the audience immeasurably. It was through GCW that I was first introduced to Roddy Piper, who was second only to Flair in his ability to get blood roiling. I watched the advent of the Four Horseman, who set the standard for wrestling stables. As time went on, GCW fell on hard times, as did the NWA, and after a period of WWF on TBS, it was reborn WCW. It was there that I first saw a young wrestler known as Terra Ryzing (a horrid, horrid name). The announcer likened him to a young Ric Flair, and I nearly put my foot through the TV. Turns out, the announcer was right - we know Terra Ryzing now as HHH.

Also, surfing the cable channels back in the days when the remote was wired and had push buttons, I came across Florida wrestling (an NWA territory) where I first watched Jake the Snake Roberts draping Damien across his foes; and WCCW from Texas, run by the ill-fated Von Erich family, where I first encountered the Dingo Warrior (who puffed up in size and became the Ultimate Warrior) and ‘Stunning’ Steve Austin (with hair even!).

I didn’t come across much AWA until it was on its last legs, but I did get to see the Midnight Rockers before they came to the WWF. They and the team of Curt Hennig/Scott Hall (Razor Ramon) were the most memorable wrestlers from that federation that I got to see before they went under (I missed Hogan’s run there).

I remember the rise of ECW - my brother would mail me the videotapes because I was in England at the time. I was a frequent visitor to the Madhouse of Extreme in Elmhurst, Queens whenever they would come. Let me tell you, when ECW was in town, it was truly a madhouse!

This pretty much brings us up to the modern era. My interest right now is in one of its lulls. I enjoy watching young wrestlers like Samoa Joe, A.J. Styles, and Christopher Daniels. Kurt Angle is great on the microphone still. In the WWE, I’m very pleasantly surprised with Ken Kennedy, and can see him becoming a top talent there.

Smitty, I never doubted the pain wrestlers work through nightly. Can I asked where you wrestled and under what name, or is that something you wish to keep private?

4

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369718&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=379670&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=413013&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=411885&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=416696&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=405303&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=400479&highlight=wrestling
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385734&highlight=wrestling

Here are some semi-recent threads to catch you up. There are a bunch of farewell threads about wrestlers who died. :frowning:

5

I have been a wrestling fan for as long as I can remember. I used to watch “Superstars” on Saturday mornings, and I would watch “Hulk Hogan’s Rock ‘n’ Wrestling,” and I ate WWF ice cream. I pestered my dad to take me to take me to shows, and every once in a while he relented. I never believed him when he said it was fake. LOOK at them! They’re FIGHTING! They HATE each other! They’re YELLING! It HAS to be real!

I remember my fist wrestling show at the Brendan Byrne Arena. I got to see my favorite tag team- Ken Patera and Billy Jack Haynes. I ran down to the ring to say hi to Billy Jack and he waved at me. I booed my heart out when Harley Race was in the ring- same with Greg Valentine.

I remember the Bobby Heenan “Family.” Paul Orndorff, Hercules Hernandez, all those guys.

I remember when Macho Man hit Ricky Steamboat (who was my favorite at the time) in the throat with the ring bell and I’ve never liked Savage since. I remember the Mega-Powers. I remember the Ultimate Warrior and the title-for-title match. And I remember the Rockers being the coolest thing I had ever seen in my life. I marked out for those guys and I haven’t stopped yet. They never won the titles (except for that on-day unofficial reign) and I thought that was a travesty. Jack Tunney was SCREWING my guys.

And I remember when Shawn stabbed Marty in the back on Brutus’s Barbershop. I was INCENSED. WHY?!?!? I can remember feeling personally betrayed.
I don’t know when it was that I found out that the outcome was predetermined. Maybe I always knew. But it was when I was on hiatus from my fandom that I suppose I accepted it, and that might have brought it back into my consciousness a bit once I started with the martial arts. So I started watching again out of curiosity.

And I liked what I saw. Loved DX- thought they were hilarious. Followed them primarily and the rest of wrestling through them. After that whole movement wound down, I got into Kurt Angle (who could/can still draw heat like nobody’s business), Rey Mysterio (perhaps a vestige of Rockers Withdrawal), John Cena (before he became the ridiculous caricature he is now); I still dig Carlito (they could be doing a lot more with him). London and Kendrick are the only reasons to watch Smackdown, but that team is one hell of a reason. Oh, and I have a crush on Maria Kanellis that is immesurable with current technology. And I still love Shawn Michaels. But more on that in a second.

Now, I suppose I’m more of a “smark” than anything. I still watch for the results, but not because I think there’s a win-loss column somewhere, but because I want to see the titles on my favorite guys- so I can see more of them.

Now, the things I root for and against are aspects of performance, not wins and losses.

-I hate McMahon’s obsession with hosses. I knew Cena would never F-U the Great Khali because the fall would injure Khali. Khali’s feature move is the Be-Big-Don’t-Sell. I hate him. Chris Masters is six different kinds of useless. Chiseled he might be, but that is IT. He’s got NOTHING.

-I hate the pandering to the LCD. By that, I mean “five moves of doom” wrestlers. You knew exactly how Hogan’s matches were going to end, if you were over the age of 8. Same with Cena. Cena can actually wrestle. His match with Michaels (where they needed to fill time because of Randy “I Crap in People’s Bags” Orton) included some real wrestling moves, a legdrop from the top rope, and some decent improv from Cena. The kid’s good. Let him BE good rather than “clothesline, clothesline, shoulderblock, shoulderblock, you cant’ see me, five-knuckle shuffle [sub]oh goodness, it hurts even to TYPE that lame phrase[/sub], F-U.”

-I hate stupid plot devices. That time when Carlito came out and tore into McMahon- “people don’t wanna see stupid skits. That’s not cool;” he was saying exactly what I was thinking.

-I hate McMahon inserting himself into the action. He’s held the ECW and WWE championships. WHY? He’s useless. He knows he’s getting old and he’s trying to arrest it.

-And I hate the way they’re using my man Shawn. Doing the job to Hogan? What crap. He had to do the job because Hogan wouldn’t do the next PPV without a clean win over Michaels. Using him as a patsy for Cena? What crap. They’ve used two of the most bogus “inadvertent pinfall” plot twists to keep the title on Cena and attempt to legitimize Cena as champion. Then you have Michaels beat him clean in a non-title match, and you’ll find a way to screw him out of his title shot, or make it into a gimmick match, so you can say Shawn never lost clean and keep Shawn as a legitimate contender so that you can keep using him to prop up Cena, at least until Hunter comes back and uses his influence to take the title. That’s crap. Put the title on Michaels for a few months and set up a friend-vs.-friend match to put it back on Hunter. At least show a loyal company guy some respect and give him a few months worth of PPV headlines.
So yes, I still love wrestling. For different reasons now than I used to, but just as fiercely.

6

For wrestling fans, what are the best matches you’ve seen, either live or on TV? I’ll start:

  1. Randy “Macho Man” Savage vs. Rick Steamboat at Wrestlemania. I could watch that match every day and not tire of it.

  2. Ric Flair vs. Rick Steamboat, Wrestlewar

  3. The Undertaker vs. Mankind, Hell in the Cell

  4. Jimmy “Superfly” Snuka vs. “Magnificent” Don Muraco in the cage

  5. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin vs. Bret “The Hitman” Hart with Ken Shamrock as the referee

  6. Any Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis match during their ECW run

And while their names don’t appear on the list above, I loved just about any match featuring Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit.

7

[shameless name dropping]

I know Tatanka! (Chris Chavis)

[/snd]

8

I used to be a fan back in the days of DX, when the Rock was just starting to become a star, and Steve Austin was the number one babyface. Ah, those were the days. Relatively good storylines, interesting characters, and memorable matches.

But then, as the OP said, WCW was bought out. And it all went down the crapper. I haven’t watched it in a good four years. Is it worth trying to get back into now?

9

I was a big fan when I was in high school. This was during Hogan’s big boom in the WWF. I got sick of it after about the fiftieth repetition of Hogan’s almost choked out, the ref raises his hand and it drops once, twice, three ti…oh! he’s up, shaking like a palsy victim, big leg drop and it’s all over. Off to college, didn’t have cable, watched some of the local promotions in Texas (I think one of the Von Erichs died around that time) and, oddly, got into Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling. I completely lost interest in it not too long after that.

Got back into it some time during The Rock and Mick Foley’s times. I liked them and a bunch of the other WWF wrestlers at that time. Never got into WCW, got a little into ECW which hadn’t been bought out yet. Got into Tough Enough on MTV for the first couple of seasons it was on. Foley retired, a few of the others I like dropped out, I got bored again and quit watching. The shows skewed too much into storylines and backstage intrigue and I didn’t care about all that stuff.

Some time after that WWE did that gay marriage storyline that they totally pissed on at the last minute and I got a little into that, but nothing else that was going on at the time caught my interest. I looked at TNA a couple of times but it never hooked me. I watch that Extreme show on MTV on demand when there’s nothing else on.

I think getting interested in MMA has pretty much put the dagger through the heart of any interest in getting back into wrestling. Not that I would ever say that the wrestlers aren’t putting their bodies on the line but I’m just not into the idea of a fight with a scripted outcome.

10

The Ultimate Warrior and Hulk Hogan in the main event at Wrestlemania 6. Face vs. face was a revolutionary idea back then, especially for a title match, even more so because it’s Wrestle-damn-mania, and the fact that both men held a championship elevated the matchup to truly epic proportions. It was a phenomenal back-and-forth battle, too. And Hulk Hogan lost. By pin. Five or six utter impossibilities in less than half an hour.

Sergeant Slaughter, Iraqi sympathizer, facing the Ultimate Warrior for the World championship in 1991…and winning. (Okay, it was just a setup for Hogan getting the belt back, but even this was against the grain for them.)

The white-hot and insanely popular Rockers running into a little friction, meeting on The Barbershop to hash things out…and splitting up forever.

The almost suffocating level of drama surrounding Randy “Macho Man” Savage losing his “king” status (essentially the WWF’s “booby championship”) and finding true love with Elizabeth after discarding his…uh…manager who never really had much of a connect with him. And there’s a snake involved. And the Hogan vs. Slaughter title match.

One of Jake The Snake’s snakes repeately biting a helpless Randy Savage on the arm. They tried to, uh, “censor” this, but it was clear what was going on.

Papa Shango and all the stuff he pulled that…while not exactly terrifying, was definitely disturbing to watch.

Harvey Whippleman (IIRC) calling out a plainly-dressed behemoth named “John” from the audience to help him conduct strength challenge between Dino Bravo and The Ultimate Warrior. My thoughts when the future Earthquake fragged the Warrior for absolutely no reason could be summed up as follows: “What the hell??”

Wrestlemania 9. The last PPV I watched on PPV…and what a doozy it was. The Headshrinkers putting up a hell of a fight but unable to overcome the tough and talented Steiners. Giant Gonzales’ manager sacrificing the match (DQ) in order to be the man that killed The Undertaker…and not being able to do that either. The rampage of bizarre invincible demonic monster heel Doink The Clown reaching even more monstrous proportions when he brings in a friggin’ clone to help him beat Crush. Cocky Razor Ramon taking on deluded-of-grandeur Bob Backlund and showing him just what a chump he was. The Megamaniacs getting a huge break against tag team champs Money Inc., who were recently abandoning title matches and racking up non-title-losing count out losses, when it’s revealed that those worthless cowards can’t do that no more…and then blowing it when Hulk Hogan gets a little too aggressive with Brutus Beefcake’s mask. All of which pales, of course, compared to the main event where World Champion Bret “Hitman” Hart was seconds from getting the victory of his life over heel juggernaut Yokozuna. But that rotten Mr. Fuji hits him with the salt, and Yokozuna gets the pin and the championship…the first ever Wrestlemania main event won by a heel. The crowd is dismayed beyond belief…until Hulk Hogan combes by, somehow finagles an on-the-spot title match against Yokozuna, and wins it…the shortest World title reign in history. If there’s ever been an ending to Wrestlemania more bizarre than this, I’m not sure I could handle it. (Oh yeah, bonus points for the fans using a “USA” chant to spur on a Canadian.)

Honorable mention for WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2006, the only PS2 wrestling game I’ve ever played that I actually thought was worth owning.

(Nb. I was young then, I didn’t have any friends in the know, there were no indie wrestling promotions in Hawaii where the works would’ve been a lot more obvious, and of course, no internet. Please excuse me for not seeing through all this as “fake”.)

If I could ask a few things…
What exactly was the deal with the WWF trademark battle? Hadn’t the World Wrestling Federation used those letters for years? Why didn’t the World Wildlife Fund raise any issues before? How can anyone have the exclusve rights to a bunch of letters, anyway? What gave the World Wildlife Fund sole jurisdiction or trademark or whatever? How does a legal decision by a British court have any power over an American-based corporation?

Was the infamous Montreal Screwjob really that horrible (especially compared to the crap Bret Hart was put through in WCW)? There was a dispute over how the he should lose the title, and Vince McMahon pulled the rug out from under him. Since he was leaving the company, the effect on his career was at best minor (especially considering how WCW booked him into oblivion). I suspect that he’d be personally upset over it but not extremely bitter to this day (especially considering, etc., etc.). Personally, I’d be more upset over the Wrestlemania 9 finish.

11

Heh-heh…“pro wrestling” is a term we use when we feel like…um…gettin’ busy.

12

IIRC, it had to do with internet promotion. The original WWF (World Wide Fund for Nature, more commonly known as the World Wildlife Fund) permitted wrestling use of WWF as long as the scope was limited. The WWF felt WWE was infringing on its trademark, sought legal recourse, and won.

Bret was upset at what he felt was a personal betrayal by a man he trusted, and because he has a huge ego (as do quite a few of the wrestlers). Bret didn’t want his image tarnished on the way out the door, and it was no secret that he didn’t get along well with Michaels. He wanted to win at the PPV and lose the following day on Raw. McMahon wanted to do what he felt was best for his business, and give Michaels the title on the PPV. McMahon told Bret one thing and then did another, and Bret became a very bitter man.

13

That was the era when I used to watch wrestling. Excuse me, I meant, uh, “tape wrestling for my Dad.” That’s it. I wasn’t watching it. Nope. Just taping it. Because it was all fake, you see, so why would I watch it?

I was a huge Rockers fan–though more of Marty than Shawn–and I wanted to grow up to be Miss Elizabeth (uh, minus the ODing in my 40s, I guess, but I didn’t know about that then).

My strongest memory of wrestling, though, was while I was in Brazil for a year on an exchange. I was flicking channels one day and came across some WWF wrestling, dubbed into Portguese. It reminded me so much of my father that I sat on the couch and watched wrestling and bawled my eyes out for half an hour. I imagine I’ve got to be one of the few people who’ve ever cried while watching wrestling on TV.

14

I watched it in my youth - my naive youth. I thought it was real back then. This was in the days of Cheif Jay Strongbow and Ivan Putski (spelling on both) and Andre the Giant. We’re talking 70s era here.

As I grew older I found it sillier (did you its fake? :stuck_out_tongue: ) and stopped watching.

15

I am trying to imagine how much liquor it would take to get Andre the Giant sloshed :confused:

16

The outcome might be predetermined, but it is NOT fake. :smiley: