I wish the President could have undertaken this conflict without coming off looking like a damn cowboy. Sure, Saddam is friends with hardly anyone, it seems like Bush’s only justification for war is what might or could happen. Sure, Saddam could develop massive fecking chemical weapons, and he could give them to terrorists, who could smuggle them into the U.S., but I hate the idea of fighting a war that could alienate us from the rest of the world just because Bush (or his advisors) is being paranoid. I know that’s a bit of a simplification, but I think that’s how we’re coming off.
I don’t understand what we’re trying to do here, other than to kill Saddam. Assuming he’s alive as I type this, he’s in a bunker a mile underground, who knows where. Americans are going to get killed; Iraqis, including civilians, are going to get killed; Saddam himself may be killed…and then what happens? And we have to make sure Iraq doesn’t have WMD, whether nuclear or chemical or biological, and something about…fighting terrorism? What about Osama? My head swims.
I’m afraid we’re going to come out of this looking like monstrous bullies. I don’t know if Saddam really has WMD or even the means to create WMD, or if he has a bunch of scary stuff hidden away. I don’t know enough about foreign policy stuff to know what we need to do. We have to protect ourselves, but I’m afraid we’re going to make a huge effort with little result.
And Iraqi soldiers trying to surrender en masse before the action even begins is just sad.
And I’d feel better about all this if I trusted Bush. It’s not his politics; it’s that whenever he opens his mouth, I never know who’s talking to me: him? Cheney? White House advisors? Bush family friends? Oil people? Defense contractors? War hawks? Think tank nerds? Bush can make whatever argument he wants to make, but he repeats the same stuff over and over about an “axis of evil” and WMD and I swear I don’t know what’s going on in his head. It makes me feel awful because this is exactly the kind of moment where I want to be absolutely 110% behind the President. And I just don’t know what to think.
I hope someone sanded this fence before I place my precious tuchus on it.
I think FCM stated my position well. On one hand, I’m glad to see us (hopefully) ousting Saddam – I truly believe he’s an evil man and one the world will be well rid of.
On the other hand, I feel like the US has lost a lot of international political capital by pursuing this war, and I don’t know that the benefits of this war will outweigh the costs, both to the US and to the Iraqi people. Then there’s the tensions in the Middle East that could be completely shifted by the power vacuum when Saddam falls…
Aw hell, I’m running out of hands. At this point, I’m sad that a war is taking place and that people have to die to advance political goals. I’m praying for soldiers and innocents on both sides; hopefully this conflict can be resolved with a minimum of bloodshed and death.
Well, intellectually, I’m against the war for a number of what I believe to be very good reasons. But . . . now I not only have friends over there, but the National Guard unit I was in up until recently has just been deployed. I know things are going to get extremely ugly over there, and I know they’re going to need people like me (medic). Yet this war is just so incredibly wrong in mind. Should I sign back up? If I do, then I’ll be contributing to a cause I don’t believe in. If I don’t, well, who’s going to help those dumbasses (said affectionately) when they get wounded? Never mind the fact that I’ve got a family here, including a daughter who will probably want a dad when she gets a little older. And yet . . .
Damn. Stupid politicians (Iraqi and American).
Anyway, I’m not so much on the fence as flopping around in two pieces on either side of it. I kind of wish now that I’d never joined the military in the first place. That, or stayed in just a little bit longer so that I wouldn’t have to make a decision now. It would be easier if I were single and without a kid.
I sort of think I know what I’m going to do, and that choice feels wrong. But so does the other choice.
Anyway, I think the war is wrong, but now that it’s started I hope it ends quickly, and with as few casualties as possible on either side. Hopefully my worst fears regarding the outcome of this war will prove unjustified, Saddam Hussein & Co. will be replaced by human beings, and we can declare peace.
crosses fingers
And on preview I think I should add this: I’m not trying to start a Great Debate or anything, and I hope nobody takes this there . . . or to the Pit. Just expressing my confusion and frustration over the current situation.
Totally on the fence. I am 100%, fanatically committed to the fence. I end up disagreeing with everyone on everything, and when I start getting those angry, everyone-is-wrong temper flares I know it’s time to go check out Get Your War On.
Okay, move over. Although the more I think about it I’m tending to fall off the fence on the anti-war side. To my mind this is a war of paranoia and suspicion. We can’t really prove anything; we only suspect that Hussein has what we think he has. We suspect a link to Al Queida, but we can’t prove it. I’m feeling less and less that this war is based on sound, global thinking and is based on … I don’t know what. If Bush were to come out and say that we want Hussein out based on human rights issues I’d be all for it, although I’d then wish that we’d be a bit more even handed in our unacceptance of those issues worldwide.
It also makes me worry what kind of government Iraq will have afterwards. Bush has said that he doesn’t want to have anything to do with setting up a new government after we leave and will leave that to the UN. Great. We’re starting a war that the UN doesn’t want and then leaving them to clean up the mess. This is a great way to build good international relations.
This whole thing is just leaving a really bad taste in my mouth. But we’re America. We do whatever the hell we want and screw everyone else.
I’m similarly of two minds on the issue. On one hand, Hussein is a rabid dog who should have been put down a long time ago. The world will be a far better place without him.
On the other hand, I feel that the evidence connecting Hussein and Al-Qaeda is tenous, at best. There’s far more of a connection between Iraq and, say, Saudi Arabia. But we like them, of course. And I think that, ultimately, Sadaam poses far more of a threat to his own people than to the rest of the world.
In the end, I think Chretien made the right choice. Follow the will of the people, and keep our forces at home. Go and clean up afterwards.
Any doctors out there that specialize in fencepost removal? Because the one I’m riding is so far up my butt that I’m flossing out splinters.
I’m absolutely, 100% behind the troops. The rest of the issues…I’m not clear on.
I kinda know, and I kinda understand, but…I wonder. I’m sure there’s stuff I’ll never know, because I’m not Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice or any of the higher-ups.
Got room for a 6’4" guy on the fence? I need a spot too.
I’ve been trying to type up my opinion of this for almost 30 minutes now, and I still can’t form a coherent statement…
On one hand, several friends/classmates/aquaintences are in the various branches of service. My childhood next-door neighbor is currently stationed on a destroyer in the Persian Gulf. I know one guy who’s an Airborne Ranger, 3 marines, 2 guys in an army tank crew, a medic, and a couple who are stationed on different aircraft carriers. For their sakes, I hope we kick ass with extreme predjudice.
On the other hand, who are we as Americans to be judge, jury, and executioner? Are we doing this for the ‘right reasons’ (and I still have no idea what the 'right reasons are)? Will we, after all of this is over, take the time to rebuild Iraq the way we rebuild Germany and Japan after WWII, or will we simply pick up our toys and walk away?
Saddam’s scum, nobody can deny that… but is he a threat to the United States?
I don’t know what to think. My head hurts. Is the fence big enough for me to lie down?
I will try very hard not to be the one who starts this thread turning ugly, since I am not on the fence. But the one thing that sticks out to me is the number of people who say does America have the right to interfere in other countries? Personally after much thought on the matter I have decided that as a freedom loving people we not only have the right, but I believe we have the obligation to help people down the road to freedom. We have great power and I believe that power should be used to it’s greatest effect. I would rather be dead than oppressed, and think people in other countries deserve the same option. Again not trying to turn this into an ugly political thread, I’m just offering my personal view to one specific point.
I too, just don’t know. I’m more scared than anything else. About what, I dunno. There’s just a sense of fear hanging over me. I’d point out all the reasons I’m ambivalent, but everyone has already spoken so much more eloquently than I could have.
My father is behind me, watching news coverage of the war. He supports it 100%. I wish I could be as sure as he was, either way.
This sums up my reaction almost perfectly. I am convinced this war is * right *, but I’m not sure it’s a good idea. I wish the U.N. was more able to do something about evil dictators who oppress their own people, but it isn’t going to happen any time soon. The world and Iraq will be a better place with Hussein gone.
No doubt that Saddam’s career of atrocities against his own country and others is abhorrent, but does that mean that the United States is now in charge of dismantling every abusive dictatorship around the globe? Make room for me on this fence please.
I firmly don’t know where I stand. So many of you have put my thoughts into perspective. I can see Bush’s POV, and I understand the points he is trying to make. I wish we had more international backing. I really was hoping they would beef up the power of the weapons inspectors and not give Iraq any choices, because Saddam would control those inspectors only as much as we’d let him.
Although I can’t disagree with the point that inspections can go on and on if you let them. Eventually, if you have the evidence that he is hiding this stuff too effectively, you have to do more than just say there will be serious consequences. There have to actually be serious consequences or he has no real reason for disarming.
What bugs me the most is that I get the feeling that this war is more of a Bush family vendetta against Saddam. Not to say that Saddam is this warm fuzzy guy that Bush just hates. But I think Bush Sr. sees the gulf war as his best moment as President. Its when he had his highest ratings. But feels the world dropped the ball on the only thing he would be known for, and has no sent son in to finish the job.
Overall I have come to the conclusion that what I think, in the long run, really doesn’t matter that much. Obviously Bush believes it is justified and he’s the “Man In Charge”. So I really don’t have to make a decision until election time when I decide if I think Bush should remain President. Then we’ll see some of the aftermath and the repurcussions of the decision, so I’m cheating really.
Therefore my duty is to support the troops. Pray for my good friend Dan, flying missions over Iraq and my future BIL Dan (hehe… seriously) helping the Constellation launch planes. And hope for a positive outcome.
