water board the b ich.
my theory on the real death of caylee -
[spoiler]instead of daycare, she put the kid down for a nap in the trunk of the car - either using zanax or maybe chloroform to knock her out - casey had likely been doing this for some time now - and she simply forgot the child was there until it was too late. All her actions after that, other than those in court, are ‘reasonable’ based on her pathological lying - even to herself about caylee’s condition. Its even likely that she parked the car somewhere and went elsewhere until well after the death itself. The child (now dead) was likely in the trunk during the gas can incident with dad - as well as whn the car was retrieved from imound.
The duct tape on the mouth, etc, could have happened if the poor child woke up playing in the trunk, or could have been a very distraught person’s way of dealing with something she couldn’t otherwise.[/spoiler]
anyone else think the lawyer is basically trying to set up the appeals for ineffectual council if (when) she gets convicted? he not only seems in over his head, but that he is intentionally screwing things up - he tried to add an expert witness to the roster today without the details that should have been done months ago.
This, exactly this. I must also add that the story that’s unfolding about this young woman’s life leaves me with a strong belief that she’s got major psychological issues. Her “normal” (that is, her baseline when she’s not trying to do anything at all) is probably many degrees away from what people would expect, in all circumstances.
Is the spoiler for those of us who haven’t finished watching the trial yet? 
Legal question: if it were proven that Caylee’s death was due to criminal negligence (followed by the cover up) on Casey’s part but wasn’t planned or intentional, could she still be found guilty of murder in some degree or only of manslaughter?
Possibly the greatest use of spoilers ever.
I have seen the “highlights” (for lack of a better word) on the news and such, but what I had wanted to see was the opening arguments, and I missed them. I finally found the whole thing:
I haven’t gotten up to the defense’s opening yet, but there’s a lot of circumstantial evidence presented in the prosecutor’s opening arguments that I hadn’t heard before. For example, on the two days immediately after the last day anyone saw Caylee alive, Casey was seen by a neighbor with her car backed into her parent’s garage on two consecutive days. On both days, she was there during a ~3 hour window where both her parents would have been at work. On the second day, **she borrowed a shovel from the neighbor. **:eek:
As I understand it, the body was definitely not in the trunk at the impound, since her father and the towing company guy looked in there.
Oh, and as for my hunch, I really don’t think she intentionally killed her daughter. My guess, though it’s hardly original, is she was regularly drugging the poor kid into unconsciousness and stuffing her in the trunk as she partied/shirked her responsibilities. She likely died of some combination of drugs/asphyxiation/heat-exhaustion - it was June in Florida.
(IANAL, but I’ve watched Law & Order)
She is charged with (from memory) murder in the 1st degree, manslaughter, gross child-neglect/abuse?, and 4 counts of providing false statements/obstruction of justice. My guess is she will be found not-guilty on the murder, and guilty on everything else. Manslaughter is in there as a lesser-included offense - I don’t think even the prosecutor really expects to win on the murder charge.
(Apologies for the three posts in a row.)
Yep, me again. I just realized the link I gave above is just the prosecution’s opening arguments. Here’s a different link to the defense:
http://www.clickorlando.com/video/28016415/index.html
I really do not see how this woman is mentally ill in any fashion. Taking her lies one at a time may point to a distraught mother, like when she mixed up the date of when she was allegedly abducted. But how can you forget that your daughter visited her great grandfather on the 15th? Her father witnessed Casey and Caylee leaving together on the next day describing them to a tee.
Then we’ve got the shovel from the neighbor. We’ve got the parties at the club with boyfriend one, who thinks her kid is always at the nanny’s. We’ve got an entire corporate entity saying she was fired two years ago, her phone extension is incorrect and she had no private office. Her co-workers can’t possibly corroborate her story at Universal.
Then the nanny who never existed, only by name most likely from a guest book, phone book, what have you.
It seems to me the stealing from friends and family was just to support a lifestyle she really, really wished she had. Instead, she’s got a dependent who makes said life impossible.
Is there any truth to the abusive father story? I seriously doubt this. Most of the lies about the disappearance, her working situation, her lies to boyfriends, stealing money, etc., seemed to be made up as she went along. Then it turns to an “accidental” death and her father is the one who wants it covered up?
Now to the the body of Caylee. Inconclusive cause of death. Yet, we’ve got chloroform in the car, we’ve got the smell of a decomposing body in the trunk, the body found half a mile away from her home or parents home?
If she is not guilty of anything, this means that her story requires something like, George had Universal executives pay Jeffery to woo her, who convinced her to hire a murderous nanny with at least ten fake names and one of the boyfriends was in on the whole thing and he’s the one who looked up how to make chloroform on the Internet???
Please, she’s guilty of lots of things. The only thing I can’t rule out is the death MAY have been accidental. Mom goes nuts under the pressure, hits her, drowns her, or even just left her in a hot car possibly by accident. But with the way she went about telling contradiction after contradiction to the police and to the public, I seriously, seriously doubt that it WAS accidental.
If it truly was accidental, I think she would’ve told someone who got her a lawyer before any of this started.
As a member of the virtual jury, I’m finding problems with the defense’s description of what really happened.
I don’t see any evidence of George having molested Casey. In fact, the alleged molestation of Casey by her brother Lee was discussed and was described as an unsuccessful attempt to “feel up” the defendant. (this Casey confided in her boyfriend Tony and he repeated in court out of the jury’s presence). How do you attempt to feel someone up? And is that molestation? George denied he did in any way and appeared truthful when doing so.
Why would George be so concerned about protecting Casey from charges that she was a negligent parent when he allegedly found the drowned Caylee, yet now, he’s willing to cooperate with the authorities in a murder prosecution? Why would a mother (Casey) leave her daughter alone in the care of a man who molested her as a child? These are all unanswered questions that make the defense’s position seem unbelievable.
None of the defense’s story is adding up, especially when you factor in the lies Casey has told to everyone. Why is she all of a sudden telling the truth now about what happened? She’s not.
My question, as a juror, you’ve got two choices. Which one fits the facts better?
She was blase about Caylee in the phone calls and jail videos, without the aid of psychotropic medication.
It’s worth noting that the defense had her undergo a psychiatric evaluation, and then declined to submit it as evidence.
The family visitation videos make me somewhat uncomfortable. Details about sick relatives and the love & support these people are sharing are not relative to a murder trail. Any parent wants to support their kids. They are still clinging to the hope that some one will return Caylee. The Anthony’s attempts at getting the public searching for Caylee is heartbreaking.
Right now I think these videos are casting Casey in a positive light. Everyone is on their best behavior. Since any talk about the case is impossible, (too many lawyers listening). They have to focus on family issues.
They are still a long way from proving this case. It seem logical that Casey did it. But I want to hear the sceince experts.
Well, the claws are out now. Ugly intro into this families dynamics. Casey has a lot of passive aggregation.
I think the visitation videos show a very self-centered Casey upset over what she’s going through being in jail. Remember, according to the defense, she already knows Caylee’s dead, yet she wants to get out to find her. I don’t see any positive light shining on someone who’s allowing her parents to suffer believing their granddaughter is missing like this.
The defense has already admitted to the jury that Casey knew that Caylee died on June 16th. They claim she drowned in the family pool. In all of these videos Casey is claiming her main goal is to find Casey and have Casey returned. If Caylee drowned in the family pool, and was not killed by Casey, why would Casey continue the lies and charade of seeking her return in these jailhouse videos? They do not put her in a positive light.
Best line in the jailhouse video by Casey Anthony: " I’m just as much a victim as the rest of you."
And when Cindy mentioned having a flat tire on the freeway, instead of sympathizing, Casey says “Guess what! That happened to me too!”
Most of Casey’s conversation on the videos is defensive or self-serving. Plus, she’s talking too much, so many unnecessary phrases, all of them heard before in TV interviews with actual grieving parents. (She reminds me of Sarah Palin.)
And there are too many details in her lies. Dopers who have nannies – do you know as much about them as Casey says she knows about Zanny?
And telling them to look for Caylee and the nanny “locally”, in places where Casey’s gone with Caylee. What kidnapper is going to take a kid to the park where they used to play?
Frank, yeah, she’ll be convicted of something, for sure. But first degree murder would surprise me.
I haven’t been following the trial as closely as some others and I could be wrong, but as far as I know, George Anthony isn’t really “cooperating with the prosecution” - he’s just not willing to go along (unsurprisingly) with the defense’s version of events. From what I’ve seen, George Anthony is trying to NOT help the prosecution as much as he can while still answering their questions truthfully. AFAIK, there’s no such thing as parent/child privilege, so just because he was called as a witness by the prosecution doesn’t mean he is on their side.
Strange as it sounds, it seems he isn’t on the side of the prosecution or the defense, but he is still on Casey’s side.
Wasn’t he an ex-cop?
Of all the freak-show allegations/lies/fantasies that Casey has come up with, if there was indeed some truth to the molestation claims (Casey said that George was sexually abusing her for decades since early childhood) it wouldn’t be too very hard to believe, but since she seemingly hasn’t told the truth about anything else in her life, (ever), the Girl Who Cried Molester will never be taken at face value…
I guess what I am trying to say is that there seems to be a pretty ugly dysfunctional dynamic in the entire Anthony family, right from the top on down.