Anyone watch "Carrier" on PBS last night?

Cafe Society
41

[QUOTE=mlees]
I was ship’s company, USS Ranger (CV-61) from Jan '86 to Dec '89.

I was TAD to the ships Master-at-Arms force during the Westpac in '87.

I was the MAA escort for a couple CO’s Mast’s, conducted by the CO, on the starboard wing of the bridge (just above the CIWS mount).
[/QUOTE]

Holy shit that was the same time period as me. You must remember Captain Davis. When we got in trouble for anything that left the Engineering Department we called it going to Captain’s Mast. It was always with the XO. I guess he just never recommended any of us to go higher up, but he definitely handed out restrictions and extra duty and I thought he made the decision to bust one of my friends from 3rd class to E3.

What division were you in?

That was quite a Westpac. It was notable for two events. Our joint fleet operation with the New Jersey and the 110 days at sea that was then a record.

Maybe you can answer a question that has been bugging me for a few weeks. When we were in the joint fleet operation, which Admiral was in charge, the one on board the Ranger or the one on the New Jersey. As we had the Aegis Cruiser, I assume it was our Admiral. Do you recall at all.

Jim ([del]I’m going to send you a PM with some other questions, this is cool.[/del] Well you don’t have PM on, bummer.)

42

I served on the Nimitz from 1986-1989. I was also stationed aboard Ike from 1998-2003. If you ladies will excuse a bit of chief-talk… my dick got hard watching the first several episodes!

The first thing which came zooming back was aromas. The hangar bay, flight deck, medical, the 03 level, the mess decks (of course) each had its own smell.

The skipper addressing the chiefs’ mess on the first day of deployment… spot on.

The attitudes, language, youth, speech (acronyms), etc. immediately pegged this production as very accurate. Icon productions is presenting the American public with an unvarnished view of the men and women of today’s Navy. I feel that the dedication and enthusiasm displayed will far out weigh the negatives portrayed. DRBs, XOI, CO’s Mast, liberty incidents, pregnancies, sleep deprivation can be negatives, but taken as a whole they highlight the standards the Navy sets for its Sailors.

The music montages are one of my favorite parts of the show. They are showing a lot of spaces and folks previously overlooked by mission-oriented, or technology-oriented productions.

You can see how the Chiefs and senior petty officers keep the *Numb-nutz * steaming.
p.s. – Upthread a ways someone mentioned the skipper has a Captain’s gig to get ashore. When this was filmed (2005), this statement would have been correct. Late last year gigs were removed from carriers because they were seen as expensive perks. Now, the Skipper uses a ferry like the rest of the crew, but he and the rest of the Wardroom load at the quarterdeck not the camel on the fantail.

43

[QUOTE=ChiefScott]
The music montages are one of my favorite parts of the show. They are showing a lot of spaces and folks previously overlooked by mission-oriented, or technology-oriented productions.

p.s. – Upthread a ways someone mentioned the skipper has a Captain’s gig to get ashore. When this was filmed (2005), this statement would have been correct. Late last year gigs were removed from carriers because they were seen as expensive perks. Now, the Skipper uses a ferry like the rest of the crew, but he and the rest of the Wardroom load at the quarterdeck not the camel on the fantail.
[/QUOTE]

I found the music to be find accept it was a little odd in one scene to have Bob Dylan playing. He was basically anti-military when he wrote the song and none of the kids shown in this show would ever be likely to play the song. Just an odd moment to me, not a complaint.

On the p.s., that was me. I had no clue they did away with the Captain’s gig. Seems amazing, but it still seems amazing to me that ships are smoke free now. Slowly the old not very smart traditions go away. They did away with beards the year I was in Basic & ‘A’ school. Beards are nice, but really a bad idea for fighting fires and NBC* attacks.

Jim

  • NBC = Nuclear, Biological and Chemical
44

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Holy shit

<snip>

What division were you in?

That was quite a Westpac. It was notable for two events. Our joint fleet operation with the New Jersey and the 110 days at sea that was then a record.

Maybe you can answer a question that has been bugging me for a few weeks. When we were in the joint fleet operation, which Admiral was in charge, the one on board the Ranger or the one on the New Jersey. As we had the Aegis Cruiser, I assume it was our Admiral. Do you recall at all.

Jim ([del]I’m going to send you a PM with some other questions, this is cool.[/del] Well you don’t have PM on, bummer.)
[/QUOTE]

(I got PM’s on now.)

I misspoke. (Sucks to be old.) I was MAA in the second half of '86. On the WestPac, I was back in my parent division, which was OED. (Operations department, Electronics Combat Systems.)

I was a “DS” (Data Systems Technician), made E5 just before that Westpac.

I remember that combined task force exercise. It was the largest (up to that time) USN task force since WW2. We got an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal for that one. I remember trying to go up on the flight deck to watch the New Jersey shoot for us, but there was quite a crowd, and I got discouraged and went back below. I don’t remember the Admiral’s name.

I remember Captain Davis. When I checked on board, he was the CO. When we (about 8 of us or so) were doing the “welcome aboard” meet with him, Monday, January 28, the in-brief was interrupted because the space shuttle Challenger had just blown up. :eek:

45

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
That is the reason for the redundancy. Work gets checked constantly on the big boats. You qualify before you take on an important or dangerous job. Besides remember a lot of these kids joined the Navy so they don’t need to ask you, “Do you want fries with that?”
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[/QUOTE]

It seems like many of the enlisted jobs on a carrier are not much better than working at McDonalds. A warship still has janitors, grill cooks, plumbers, warehouse guys, etc. They just have different names. The typical image of the Navy in the media is usually a ship full of Annapolis studs and MIT engineers working on cutting edge weapons and sensor systems.
I have to assume that a lot of stuff on a war ship is “idiotproofed” as much as possible.

46

I hope that this show will help “humanise” the folks in the military for the civilians who don’t know any.

The folks in the military (the US’s, anyways) is a slice of America as a whole. They have all the same hopes, dreams, faults, and emotions as the rest of the citizens.

All too often, I see the opinion expressed that the folks in the military are stoopid redneck hicks with no other career prospects.

47

[QUOTE=msmith537]
It seems like many of the enlisted jobs on a carrier are not much better than working at McDonalds. A warship still has janitors, grill cooks, plumbers, warehouse guys, etc. They just have different names. The typical image of the Navy in the media is usually a ship full of Annapolis studs and MIT engineers working on cutting edge weapons and sensor systems.
I have to assume that a lot of stuff on a war ship is “idiotproofed” as much as possible.
[/QUOTE]

No janitors. There is no seperate job for that on the ships. (There isn’t room for the extra crew, and the Navy can’t spare the bodies.)

The crew working in a particular space are responsible for keeping it clean (and painted, polished brasswork, etc.).

I was a Data Systems Technician. I maintained and repaired the computer mainframe in CVIC (Carrier Intel Center. Strike planning.).

Yet, I and the other sailors in my workcenter were responsible for sweeping and waxing the deck in our computer room, a section of the passageway (just outside the computer room) on the O-3 level, our berthing (called a “coop”), and the head next door to that. (As well as the painting whatever needed it, and replacement of floor tiles.) General upkeep type of stuff.

If something broke (let’s say a toilet in the head), we would put in a trouble ticket with the engineering department, and they would send up a sailor or two to look at it and tell us that it will be out of commission for a few months while we wait for an ordered part to come in. :wink:

48

[QUOTE=Athena]
What was especially disturbing were the interviews where they asked them about their mission, and whether or not they believed in the war they were fighting. Most of the people interviewed flat out said they had no idea why we were at war in Iraq, the political climate that led up to the war, or whether or not they were for or against the war. “I’m here to do my job and defend my country.” WTF? I understand patriotism, but would it really hurt you to crack a newspaper or web page and read up on just what you’re doing? Since, you know, you could kill people and stuff. Even if media is limited on the boat itself, that doesn’t explain away the time before they were on the boat. These people were just clueless.
[/QUOTE]

How and where are you going to get that newspaper from? You’ve seen how little free time people had aboard ship, now add to that the infrequency that mail shows up for anything but a birdfarm. My ship was a cruiser, and we often went on cruises where we’d go six weeks between mail calls.

AIUI there’s now some internet connectivity aboard ships, but that’s new, and you sure as Hell don’t have the time to really go surfing.

What we had for news were AP news headlines posted outside the radio shack. Maybe once or twice a week.

And you want us to be up on current events? :smack: :smiley:
As for before getting to the ship? (shrug) How many 18 year olds are politically aware? I know there are a lot of people in that age cohort who are, but I don’t think that they represent even a large minority, let alone a majority. And of course, shore-based training is often just as isolated, in it’s own way, as being at sea.

For that matter, one of the reasons that military pay gets the short stick compared to other government employees is that traditionally the military either doesn’t vote, or doesn’t vote in localized communities. Of those people who are concerned about politics, many of them will maintain a legal residence where they enlisted from - and vote there. And unless they’ve come from a military area with a large base, there’s going to be little direct concern for military interests from their congressional delegation. While I was in the COLA to military pay were usually 50-75% of the COLAs for GSA pay scales. If the military, as a group, can’t organize enough to fight that, why do you imagine that more abstract issues will fire them up?

49

“Sweepers, Sweepers, man your brooms. Give the ship a clean sweep down both fore and aft! Sweep down all lower decks, ladder backs and passageways. Hold all trash on station. Now sweepers.”

50

Not only cleaning and general repair, Sailors assigned to a specific space are also responsible for all the PMS (periodic maintenance system) for all the items located in that space. From the easy (battle lanterns), to the medium (door gaskets), to the extremely hard (the cyclic maintenance of the vent plenums which end outboard to the TV studio on the 01 level beneath the island.).

Also the cross training for GQ. Even though I was a JOC running the PA shop, I was also the Chief assigned to the 1Bravo DC locker. I was responsible for ensuring all the Sailors assigned to my locker could repair any type of battle damage (missile hit, fire, aircraft fire, major conflageration, back up the nuke team in the reactor spaces, pipe patching, shoring, dewatering, NBC defense, decontamination station) in addition to running my shop.

51

[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
“Sweepers, Sweepers, man your brooms. Give the ship a clean sweep down both fore and aft! Sweep down all lower decks, ladder backs and passageways. Hold all trash on station. Now sweepers.”
[/QUOTE]

The corellary being: “Airwing, airwing, man your racks…”

Ship’s company black shoes rules!

52

[QUOTE=msmith537]
It seems like many of the enlisted jobs on a carrier are not much better than working at McDonalds. A warship still has janitors, grill cooks, plumbers, warehouse guys, etc. They just have different names. The typical image of the Navy in the media is usually a ship full of Annapolis studs and MIT engineers working on cutting edge weapons and sensor systems.
I have to assume that a lot of stuff on a war ship is “idiotproofed” as much as possible.
[/QUOTE]

First, don’t put down plumbing, it is a good profession and the Navy can be a good way to break into it.

The actually janitorial work usually a temporary duty (TDA) that lasts for some period of months and usually only for E3s and below. The Mess cooks were full time but supplemented by many TDAs. I worked a few weeks in the Galley and two months in the bake shop. It wasn’t bad and gave me an extra incentive to make Petty Officer. I also made myself useful to the division by qualifying on as many watches as possible and always volunteering for any new tech we had.

In fact when it came time to get promoted they screwed up my paperwork and I was not eligible so the Sr. Chief and Division Officer put me up for Cap Advance with a glowing report. This worked out well for me as that period, very few made it to third class petty officer through the normal test. I might have missed any way and one of my friends that did miss was as bright as I was. (He was also a nuclear program wash out.)

In the Navy as a lowly Electrician I got skilled with Zenith Computers with Lotus 1-2-3 when it was still a rare skill. I was using Infra-Red cameras to check on Fuse box and machinery when few civilians knew about such uses. I also was trained and trained others in the use of Sound Sensing equipment that could detect when a bearing was going bad long before actual failure. I knew back then the complete steam cycle for the ship. There was a lot of cutting edge tech to learn even in unexpected areas.

As far as idiotproof, we always joked that just because something was idiotproof did not mean it was sailor-proof.

Jim

53

[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth]
From tonight: 7 hotdogs per bun. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

Yes, that kid made me laugh as well. He was a mix of incredulity and arrogance - he seemed pretty sure his hot dog would find its way to a bun on the boat.
The SAV officer throwing everything away while drunk in HK - stunning. Such a loss of good judgment is mind-blowing to me.
I thought the engaged couple was cute and there are people who are pretty jealous of them, obviously. That’s a unique situation that deserves its own episode IMNSHO.
Lastly, the pilot’s wife showing him the ultrasound brought tears to my eyes. You can tell how much being a dad means to him.

54

I notice many sailors referring to the Nimitz as “the boat.” I thought the Navy was touchy about only subs being boats - has that changed, or are these young sailors purposefully/rebelliously/goofily using the wrong term?

In ten hours, they’ve got to show a scene or two from The Final Countdown, right?

I’d also like to see more about the non-aviator Marines on board. Do they feel isolated? Do they look down on the sailors? How big of a Marine contingent would the Nimitz carry, who would command them (a lieutenant, or higher?) and what would be their duties?

The short segment on gay sailors was oddly powerful and affecting. Not what I would have expected from Mel Gibson’s film company.

Mr. Moto, please tell us more about the case in which a sailor was limited to bread and water.

55

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]

As for before getting to the ship? (shrug) How many 18 year olds are politically aware? I know there are a lot of people in that age cohort who are, but I don’t think that they represent even a large minority, let alone a majority. And of course, shore-based training is often just as isolated, in it’s own way, as being at sea.
[/QUOTE]

Knowing the basics about why we’re in a war, especially if you’re involved in it, seems to me to be basic knowledge, even for a non-politically active 18 year old. I’m not looking for a PhD here. I can understand not being up-to-date on the specifics if you’re in a situation where media is not available, but these kids seemed completely clueless about any sort of current events at all. I’m talking the kind of info that it would take about 30 minutes of reading or watching a couple news shows to get familiar with. Heck, I’m guessing there’s some people on board who know what the war is about, they could ask a couple questions and get a basic understanding.

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
you sure as Hell don’t have the time to really go surfing
[/QUOTE]

They appeared to have time to play video games, read (one guy said he read 1-2 books a month), play poker, and otherwise goof off.

You can excuse them if you want; I think it’s inexcusable.

56

[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
I notice many sailors referring to the Nimitz as “the boat.” I thought the Navy was touchy about only subs being boats - has that changed, or are these young sailors purposefully/rebelliously/goofily using the wrong term?
…
Mr. Moto, please tell us more about the case in which a sailor was limited to bread and water.
[/QUOTE]

We called them Boats, in fact we refered to the conventional carriers as pigboats. My ship was nicknamed the Danger Ranger which beat the Shitty Kitty (Kittyhawk) and the Fiery Forry (Forestal, famous for its horrific flightdeck fire during a tour of duty in Vietnam)

As to bread and water, up to 1981 it was still being handed out for offenses like sleeping on a sponson watch. There was a sailor on the ship place on Bread & Water when the Marines still ran the Brig. The sailor was also given hard physical training (PT) daily and he ended up dying. The Captain at the time was brought up on charges from what I can recall. They also pulled the Marines off of Brig duty.

[QUOTE=Athena]
Knowing the basics about why we’re in a war, especially if you’re involved in it, seems to me to be basic knowledge, even for a non-politically active 18 year old. I’m not looking for a PhD here. I can understand not being up-to-date on the specifics if you’re in a situation where media is not available, but these kids seemed completely clueless about any sort of current events at all. I’m talking the kind of info that it would take about 30 minutes of reading or watching a couple news shows to get familiar with. Heck, I’m guessing there’s some people on board who know what the war is about, they could ask a couple questions and get a basic understanding.

You can excuse them if you want; I think it’s inexcusable.
[/QUOTE]

I think you are over-estimating 18 years old. I know when I was in, I was amazed by how few knew where Iran was or even Vietnam. I would say most of the kids that end up in the military are not college material, if they were college material, they were usually slackers in high school or screwed up in college and looked for an alternative. The level of knowledge of current events was not high and newspapers were rare. Of course when we were in, we also did not have internet back then.

[QUOTE=ChiefScott]
… Also the cross training for GQ. Even though I was a JOC running the PA shop …
[/QUOTE]

Damn, you lost me, I don’t know what a JOC is or PA shop. Please translate.

57

[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
I’d also like to see more about the non-aviator Marines on board. Do they feel isolated?
[/quote]

They intentionally isolate themselves. “Eprit de Corpse”, and all that. :wink:

I think so, a little. The Marines that I met were proud of their “spit and polish”.

I don’t know what the current status of Marine Detachments (MarDet) on carriers is. My experience is from the 80’s.

Their duties included providing an orderly for the Captain (part bodyguard, part status symbol), which was probably a rotating duty/watch.

They provided, at that time, the main internal security force for the ship. (The “police” are the ship’s Master-at-Arms. By security, I mean responding to unauthorised intruders, security for “special weapon” on/off-loads, defense against small boats.) They were augmented by the MAA’s, as well as volunteers (I forget what that group was called. Ship’s Auxilliary Security Force? Somesuch like that. Ship’s Auxilliary Police would not be it… “SAP’s”? heh.), if the need arose. Never did while I was onboard.

I think MarDet was led by an O-3, Marine Captain, but I could be wrong. (Navy Captain is an O-6 rank.)

58

[QUOTE=Athena]
You can excuse them if you want; I think it’s inexcusable.
[/QUOTE]

A ship’s complement is a pretty good snapshot of America aged 18-35. If you feel as though they are not up to standards, they might not be – but then your average young American wouldn’t be either. But they do their jobs well, in a difficult, strenuous, stressful environment… so cut 'em a break.

Elindil’s Heir – 1. I notice many sailors referring to the Nimitz as “the boat.”
True. But Sailors talking to Sailors this is forgivable. Now if’n a Marine called my ship a “boat”… The correlation would be the acceptable use of “nigga” between African Americans.

  1. In ten hours, they’ve got to show a scene or two from The Final Countdown, right?
    Please, God, no. I’ve seen that movie literally a hundred times standing TV master control watch. Also the theme is used by the Nimitz as its breakaway song.

  2. Not a Jarhead.

  3. The short segment on gay sailors was oddly powerful and affecting. Not what I would have expected from Mel Gibson’s film company.
    Overall, I feel Icon’s doing a wonderful realistic job.

  4. Mr. Moto, please tell us more about the case in which a sailor was limited to bread and water.
    A commanding officer may award a Sailor at Captain’s Mast: 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, reduction in rank, and take up to 1/2 your pay for 2 months. Once awarded, Sailors may request 3 days B&W in lieu of serving the restriction and extra duty as long as what their being punished for does not make them a liberty risk.

59

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Damn, you lost me, I don’t know what a JOC is or PA shop. Please translate.
[/QUOTE]

JOC = Chief Journalist. My rating (Navy job) is now called MC (mass communications specialist) I was a Chief Petty Officer.

PA = Public Affairs. We fell under the cognizance of the Administration Department, or X Department. My division was X-4.

60

[QUOTE=mlees]
I think MarDet was led by an O-3, Marine Captain, but I could be wrong. (Navy Captain is an O-6 rank.)
[/QUOTE]

Our MarDet was led by a Captain but he was always called Major as to avoid even the sniff of confusion with the only Real Captain on the ship. An old Navy & Marine tradition.

In fact I recall the Chief Engineer still being called Commander or Cheng after he made advancement to O6 Captain and the Air Boss was a Captain and I think he was also referred to mainly as the Air Boss or as a Commander.

Does this check with your memories?

Jim