I keep thinking that the Teresa’s ex-boyfriend had something to do with it. But now after reading what about the stuff left out of the documentary, I think it’s likely Avery did do it after all. One of the more depressing things I’ve watched in a long time, for lots of reasons.
I just finished watching this today.
Given all of the indicators that the police were framing Avery - the cop calling in the license plate days before the car was found, the single bits of evidence found in seas of nothing that should have been swamps of DNA, the key suddenly appearing in a well searched room, the fact that only Avery’s DNA, and not Teresa Halbach’s, was on the key, the Manitowoc police assisting where they had no business and always being the ones who found the evidence - I would be at least suspicious of the rest of the evidence and I would have to find reasonable doubt. I would also be pissed at the cops for either framing an innocent man or forcing me to acquit a guilty one.
Regarding Brendan Dassey; I’d have no trouble finding him not guilty. I can’t see how anyone could see that interrogation video and still believe his confession.
We also finished watching it yesterday. It would seem that Brandon Dassey should have had a mistrial, based on what his ‘defense’ attorney did, and what happened in the coercive interviews. Attorneys are obligated by law to provide a vigorous defense for their clients, and guilt is not supposed to make any difference in how they do that. The detectives and the investigator had to have known that they were dealing with someone who is mentally deficient and easily manipulated. Their interviews were shameful. That said, I’m pretty sure that Dassey participated in the rape, or at least was a witness to, and abetted, both it and the murder, particularly in light of some of the things in the link above.
I’m convinced that the cops planted some evidence, especially the key, but I also believe that Avery was guilty as hell. He’s not the brightest bulb in the pack, and I have no trouble believing that he would leave the vehicle in his own wrecking yard with half-assed concealment, or that he would burn the body right next to his trailer. I don’t believe that she was killed in the trailer or the garage, as it just doesn’t compute, but she was probably raped there and the bedding burned along with everything else. If she was on top of blankets, then semen wouldn’t soak through to the mattress. He may have choked her unconscious before they carried her out to wherever the killing was done.
The best part of the series was the indictment of the justice system, which sometimes grinds on regardless of the misdeeds of prosecutors, defense attorneys and judges, i.e., the refusal of appellate courts to retry the case despite clear evidence that they should.
But my favorite part was the karmic bitch slap to prosecutor Kratz over his sexting and downright skeeviness. His quoted texts reminded me of the Larry Sanders episode wherein Jeremy Piven is humping an assistant behind Larry’s desk and telling her “I’m the head writer” over and over again to get her hot. 
The question remains, is there enough untainted evidence to convict him? Could he get a fair trial where every bit of evidence and testimony was suspect?
That’s my thinking on this. I think the presented evidence leaves room for reasonable doubt. Gut feelings or personal opinions shouldn’t enter into it as those things are not reliable.
Does the presented evidence show guilt beyond a reasonable doubt or not? That’s the only question. The fact that so much of the evidence has the appearance of being planted makes all of it suspect. The fact that some of the police involved had motive to want to put him away, and that they shouldn’t have even been involved in the investigation, adds to that.
Maybe he was guilty, but the whole case is so tainted that it can’t be proven.
I’ll also add that, give the fact that I believe there is reasonable doubt regarding Avery, it then follows that that same reasonable doubt applies to Brendan Dassey since he can’t be guilty unless Avery is. At least not in the scenario being put forth by the prosecution.
The problem I have with this show–and I had the same problem with Serial–is that we didn’t see the entire trial against either Avery or Dassey. We saw only the parts that the show producers wanted us to see. So while I agree that what we saw certainly gives the appearance of a case with a lot of room for reasonable doubt, I can’t conclude that my opinion–or the opinion of millions of other viewers–is better informed than the jurors who actually sat through the whole trial.
The flip side, of course, is that we did see things that the jurors may not have. Still, I think the rush of “OMG he’s innocent!” proclamations are due to a lot of people taking on faith that the show presents an objective view of the case, which I don’t think it does.
Brendan Dassey was a suggestible, naive, impressionable 16-year old who deserved protection as a minor, not to sold down the river by the people appointed to represent his interests.
It’s an appalling breach of trust and of adult responsibility for a vulnerable kid.
Yeah, whether Avery is guilty or not, it certainly appears that Dassey was used as a tool to help them convict Avery. That level of callousness makes me question anything they did.
I was only able to get through the first six episodes because 1) it’s not like I don’t know what’s going to happen in the end and 2) it’s too infuriating to watch.
It is difficult to watch at times. I binged it for the most part, but there was one point where I stopped for a couple of days before going back and watching the rest, and I wasn’t even sure if I would go back.
This was not due to the quality of the documentary, it’s totally engrossing. Rather, it was, as you say, too infuriating.
I was surprised how this documentary affected me. I’ve even had bad dreams about the case which is highly unusual for me. I don’t know if Avery committed murder, but I sure as hell believe that the prosecution failed to prove his guilt.
When I watched this last week, I had no clue whose case the series was about, but then I immediately recognized Avery and realized I had seen the Dateline or 20/20 about him. A lot of my outrage was quelled by the fact that I already knew the outcome, but also, I’m not so faithful in our justice system to believe something like this couldn’t happen. Still infuriating though. I’m not sure if Avery didn’t do it, but I believe he and Brendan deserve new trials.
When I was very young, my cousin was raped and murdered by boys she knew that were friends of her brother. My other cousin (her brother) was dragged through the press (small town) about possibly being involved. These sorts of stories really resonate with me. I just wonder if my cousin, and while he’s not the smartest guy I wouldn’t say he’s as “slow” as Brendan or Steve, would’ve gotten railroaded like them if the evidence wasn’t as convincing. Poor, black, and in a small, rural community? That could’ve ended bad. He’s rightfully still pissed about it.
Was there no way he could have left the country after he got out of prison?
If there was any possible way, I would have thought he would be gone like a shot.
Seems as if one of his lawyers knew there was a good chance the lawyers on the prosecution side would have charged him with something else again and again just to keep him in prison for as long as they could. Yet, none of his lawyers ever advised him to flee to some country that didn’t have any extradition treaties with the USA?
BTW, when I say “flee”, I think it would have been legal for him to do that. Wouldn’t it? Once he was let out of prison, I think they would have had no right to make him surrender his passport or anything else equiv to that.
boggle
He wasn’t exactly wealthy. I think he was pretty much dependent on family and the family business. How would he have survived if he left the country?
Granted, he could have done so if he had won a large enough amount from his lawsuit, but he was arrested before that happened.
I recall a lawyer in another case saying that anyone who gets a conviction overturned should get out of that state immediately.
I don’t know if it matters, even with everything the local sheriffs did I’d be surprised if they created the crime just to frame him (not shocked really, but murdering someone just to frame him is pretty far out there). And there is the strong possibility he killed that woman. As long as he was there they would be after him, if they couldn’t frame him for something they’d make his life miserable anyway. Start at the beginning of the story, there’s personal enmity between Avery and the sheriff’s department, they were after him before the first crime that he was unjustly convicted of.
FWIW, there’s a great drama series on the Sundance channel called Rectify. It’s about a man who is released from prison after spending 18 years on death row for the murder and rape of a young woman. He was released due to DNA evidence. He has trouble assimilating back into the community, because many of them still think he’s guilty and some local authorities keep working to put him back behind bars. Sound familiar? 
Actually, it’s different from this case in many ways, but there are some other parallels I didn’t mention above. It’s really well done and it just got renewed for a fourth and final season. I highly recommend it.
Finished watching it:
I’m convinced Steven did it. The framing argument is implausible. The defense never constructed a reasonable scenario explaining how all of this evidence got there. In fact, there really isn’t one. It requires a murder who knows Theresa’s movements, has knowledge of the Avery compound, and the foresight to know that the cops would frame Steven.
The state totally bungled the investigation and trial. A few ridiculously obvious mistakes:
(1) You can’t publicly recuse a police department from an investigation and then allow them to participate. It’s just dumb and handed a golden opportunity to the defense.
(2) They bullied Brendan into a story and then publicly argued it when it was totally unsupported by the physical evidence.
(2) is the big problem with the case. The prosecution’s scenario for the murder is incorrect because they relied on a bad witness. That doesn’t mean Avery isn’t guilty. It just means that the prosecution was done by a bunch of idiots.
As for Brendan, what a total joke. I’m still in shock at the conduct of his lawyer and investigator. I think he was at the fire and probably saw something. Avery probably talked to him about it as well. But there was obviously no rape in the manner Brendan described. I found the interview below and it seems the most spontaneous and consistent of Brendan’s statements:
The report says “EDTA is readily identified at a concentration of 13 mg/L” and that the concentration of EDTA “in a drawn blood tube is is typically 1000-2000 mg /L”.
Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life’'Exhibit%20435%20FBI%20EDTA%20analysis.PDF?dl=0
So assuming the FBI isn’t totally making stuff up, they did the testing correctly.
Define “readily”. Does it scientifically and legally mean “always and with no false negatives”? It just seems like a fuzzy and unscientific term, but I could be mistaken.
I’m not just asking that rhetorically. I’d really like to know.
It’s also possible that Mr. LeBeau (the apparent author of the report) was mistaken rather than “totally making stuff up”.
Someone help me remember. Wasn’t there an expert who testified that false negatives were possible? If so, and if that report is claiming otherwise, than we have dueling experts, both of whom could have honestly believed what they were saying.