Anyone work in Advertising?

I work in real estate . . . I am happy with the money I make, but I find the work extremely dull, and the people in the industry to be robotic. I’m a musician by night, and naturally am a creative person.

I’m dating a girl who works in advertising, and it sounds like the vast majority of people she works with are fun, creative, young, cool people.

She said it would take 2 years of “paying my dues” before I could make a living wage in Advertising in Los Angeles, and that it would not require going back to school. However, she did not define “living wage” with a number.

I know that Advertising is hardly a stroll through the park, and is intense and demanding. But so is my job, and I would just love to work with people I can relate with on something that is more interesting.

Anyone care to share with me your experiences in this field? Also, salary ranges would also be much appreciated.

As a quick anecdote . . . I purposefully don’t share with my real estate associates the fact that I’m a musician, because more often than not I am scoffed at. The people I’ve met at my SOs work all thought it was cool.

You are in a tough field, it can easily be as lucrative and even more lucrative than the advertizing realm if you put your time in and build a name. However, you will always be ‘catering to the man’ if you know what I mean… I’m an executive director for a large environmental company in Connecticut, I spend a lot on advertizing, we tend to deal mainly with the 24-30-ish cool, hip people who are the advertizing/marketing reps for the companies we deal with. They are all about taking us out to dinner, catering to our every need: why?
Because we spend 40k a year advertizing with them.

So my recommendation: Go for it. Don’t quit your day job until you have an offer, but in the mean time, apply, apply, apply…use your SO as a reference.

I worked in client side advertising at the beginning of my career. Everyone was young because if you need a real job, this wasn’t it, except the senior managers and VPs. Client side is more lucrative though - but less creative (you hire the agency).

Very demanding. What drove me nuts about it is in the end there isn’t a “right” answer - there is the thing you came up with that you think is great, and your boss thinks is horrible. Lots of ambiguity.

What about working as “the creative” in the field? What is the range of money you can make being the “idea” guy, from the most common to the well-paid? The reason I ask is that I would hate to make a career change to something else that was equally monotonous.

There isn’t really an “idea guy” You are probably talking about being a copywriter or art director.

Entry level work is writing copy for incontenance barrier film for an eight page brochure.

Brainiac4’s brother has been looking for nine months for an ad job in the hot Minneapolis market with ten years of experience.

Art director checking in…

Roboto, working for an advertising agency doesn’t really narrow it down much. You mention that you’re creative, but haven’t mentioned if your forté is in design or writing.

I can’t speak for any one way to get into the field on the writing side, but on the art side, you’d better have a BA in Design and know Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign like the back of your hand. You’ll also need a portfolio of kick-ass work for the interview.

And you’ll be competing with students who are willing to work for almost nothing and work through the night to impress someone.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but lots of people are “creative” but it is a very narrow sliver of creativity that can excel in the ad game, the better an agency’s work is, the more it is likely to be a meat grinder.

(bolding mine)

What exactly does your girlfriend do at this agency? Is she on the account side or the creative side? How big is the agency?

Here’s the current AIGA/Aquent Salary Survey. This is about as comprehensive as it gets.

She’s on the account side . . . she’s an account manager. Her company is relatively small but gets some pretty big accounts.

I would want to be on the writing side I think . . . I enjoy writing and can compose copy in ways to make it interesting. I do know photoshop very well, and could put together a small portfolio of the album covers and show flyers I’ve put together, but I don’t think I could compete with someone with a degree in that realm.

Okay, so narrowing it down, I know that I would prefer the creative side to the account side, and would have to go on the “writing” end of the spectrum. What would a firm want to see from me in an interview setting? My real estate resume is impressive . . . to people in real estate. My gf said that most people at her firm, aside from copywriters and designers, did not get degrees in advertising, which I found to be the most encouraging, as I thought that would be my biggest obstacle.

Also, even being on the account side, I think it would be far more interesting than real estate (leases, purchase contracts, due diligence, guaranty agreements, deeds of trust). Even your boring stuff seems more interesting, as ALL my stuff is boring. So if it made more sense to start on the account side, perhaps I could work my way in to the creative side at a company.

I think I could survive on $45k per year, as long as it went up after a few.

Thanks so much for your responses thus far. To be honest, I just want to get a job at her firm, but that would be weird territory infringement, even though she just quit, since she has an open invitation to come back and may do some freelance work for them on the side.

Ah-HA! I suspected! Yeah… the account execs don’t typically have any set curriculum – it’s kind of a “general” job with the mediocre ones. With the bad ones, it shows, painfully. The good ones are knowledgeable about the client, their market, and are savvy to know how to ask probing questions to diagnose client needs in addition to what the client asks for. They typically act as the client’s advocate in the presence of the creative team and as the creative team’s advocate in the presence of the client. So if you want to be an account exec, give it a shot. Just know **that an ad exec is rarely able to jump across the aisle to the creative side. ** Having worked in groups as small as 5 and as large as 500, I’ve never seen this happen in my experience. But yeah, being around a creative, hip and trendy crew can be a blast if the agency’s not toxic.

If you really are serious about being a great writer, you’re going to have to get educated. I would check out the Portfolio Center

Or if you’re a self-starter, you can fake the same curriculum by finding a young hungry designer and making up your own ads for real companies. Buy or borrow a bunch of these books, as well as the classic primer Ogilvy on Advertising

I went to school with a savvy dude who created kick-ass ads in Advertising Design class for a real local place and then he turned around and gave them the creative for free so long as they ran the ads as-is them — just to get “printed pieces” into his portfolio. Pretty smart. I was envious as hell of the idea.

In the meantime, have a look at this video, and you’ll have a sense of what it’s like to work in an advertising agency.

Awesome, thank you so much for your responses, they are very helpful and much appreciated.

I’ve worked on both the creative side and the account side.

On the creative side you are allowed to be hip, cool and wear black all the time. You can win all kinds of different awards. However, you will be a commodity, easily (and quickly) replaced when your particular quirkiness either grows cold or ceases to be cost-effective.

And, as Phlosphr obliquely noted, you don’t see a lot of creatives in their late 30s – much less 40s or 50s. It’s a poor risk for a long-term career.

On the account side, you can make bunches of bucks and if you tie yourself closely enough to a big client, you’ll be damn near indispensible. However, you will personally be blamed if the client cuts the budget and be fired if your agency loses the business. You’ll also be expected to wear a suit – if not every day, at least a lot more frequently than your creative counterpart. In short, it’s a sales position.

Want big bucks, coolness and a long career? Start as creative and gradually take on more and more account (sales and service) responsibilities. However, you’ll still probably end up giving up at least one of the three.

Okay, I call cite, because I’m 35 and I know a whole slew of people older than me kicking ass in the creative field.

Here’s one that says the average age is 29.

Here’s one that says “writers and art directors are usually between 25 and 35 years old.”

This is more anecdotal

This one talks about ageism in the industry.

I’m working on getting a start in advertising after 10 years in marketing. My suggestion to you would be to do it right–take the time to go to a portfolio school and get the basics under you. You’ll start your search with a strong book and a definite idea of your strengths. Less casting about to figure out what you want and what you’re good at.

And you’re right, advertising is a young field, but it’s all a matter of state of mind. I’m 36 and working on a career change, and I’m not having any problem competing with my under-25 classmates.

I say go for it. If you’re creative and smart and willing to work hard, it’s worth trying. And don’t be afraid to relocate. LA is a tough market, and there are lots of great places to get started in the field.

FTR, I’m going to a portfolio school here in Madison now. I’m about halfway through and it’s been an amazing experience.

Hi kunilou, Just so you’re aware, I took issue with the way you cast aspersion onto me and my kind: “you will be a commodity, easily (and quickly) replaced when your particular quirkiness either grows cold or ceases to be cost-effective,” as though those traits are unique to the creative field. To top it off, you proclaim that my career is living on borrowed time. Please understand if I sound hacked off for some reason.

But as for the citations you’ve provided, I’d like to offer counterpoints that call out some extrapolations you’re adding to the research.

Your cite includes *account managers and planners *into the median, which indicts the account side as well as the creative side. Not only that, but the article states it was an “informal study” by a 44-year-old who was lamenting the trend of treating baby boomers as over-the-hill. I’d love to know how “informal” is “informal.”

The full quote is, "Writers and art directors are usually between 25 and 35 years old, anyone older having either made it to the executive floor, beyond the day-to-day marketing activities, or been pushed out altogether.”

This gets to what I think the core of our disagreement is. If we’re simply looking at job titles, then yes, younger people do inhabit the non-managerial, day-to-day, on-the-boards role of an agency. But as creative types get older, if they aren’t moving beyond these roles, it’s a result of their limited abilities, not the fact they are in a creative field. Art Director and Copywriter is not the ceiling for creative professionals (thank god).

Case in point: I have a colleague who used to be my partner on my primary account. She was the editorial director counterpart to me, the art director. Not too long ago, she got promoted into a brand director position for the larger company (still a creative position). She is close to opening shop with a colleague of hers in which she will be partner (still applying the mad creative skills that she’s always relied on. But a title like “Partner” isn’t going to show up on polls on creative positions.

Anecdotal and specific to the online advertising agency and again doesn’t distinguish between creative and account positions. I would argue that the newness of the technology component in the advertising field is the primary attribute that generates to this median age figure. In my own experience at my last job, my employer had two “groups”: print and interactive. The respective ages of the interactive group’s was indeed lower than that of the print counterparts. But I have to tell you, there was no shortage of gray hair in the upper creative echelons on the print side.

Again, this article cites median ages relative to the industry, not solely creative. From this, we should be just as concerned for age bias to affect the account side of the agency as the creative side of an agency.


I will concede that the creative industry requires a youthful mind-set and perspective and that, in the less-talented examples, do correlate to actual age. But I argue that a skilled creative professionals move up within their creative field, not out.

Madison rocks! I love Planet Propaganda! I myself graduated from MIAD.

The truth is, MANY people want to enter the Advertising field, and there are only just so many jobs. I used to be a copywriter for a retailer’s in-house creative team. I promise it didn’t take them 10 minutes to fill my position when I left.

Of course highly skilled and experiencecd creative people are hardly a commodity. But at the entry level where the OP will need to start? Hell yes you are a comoodity and an easily replaceable one at that.

JMHO.

I’d go as far as to say that at the highly skilled level it isn’t a “stable” field.

Businesses hire ad agencies. Advertising is one of the first things cut in tougher times. Businesses often shop their accounts around, both to get a new creative voice and to lower their costs. As someone who used to work on the client side, to the business, even a talented writer is a commodity.

So one day you are the senior copywriter (or account person, it doesn’t really matter which side you are on) on “the Very Important Account” - then the account leaves the agency. Maybe you get moved to a new account - maybe the whole creative team for the account gets pink slips.

As to age, advertising is very image concious - the are aware that a 30 year old “hip trendy guy” sells the account (as an account exec or as an art director or as a copywriter) better than an equilvent talent who is fifty and looks it.

Hey you! please note that in my original post I said that I had worked on both the creative and account management sides of the business.

Your criticism of my four cites seems to be that they paint both sides of the business with the same brush while I only focused on the creative side. I focused on the creative side because that’s what Roboto was asking about. Are you defending the advertising industry because it favors youth on both sides?

Damn right. It’s going to show up in “owners.” There are a lot more workers than there are owners.

I’m going to stand by my original point. If you want a long career in advertising, you have to be willing and able to take on more account responsibilities in addition to (or replacing) solely creative.