I am an RN and go to a lot of online nursing sites, so my computer senses this and I have been getting banner ads from Univ. of Phoenix. The one that has me steamed says “What if you found out that the nurse giving you care wasn’t a BSN?” I have known LVN’s, diploma RNs, Associate Degree nurses, BSN’s, MSN’s and a few PhD’s in health/nursing areas. I want to know if people really need background info on their bedside nurse before they can feel safe?
These ads piss me off. Is Univ. of Phoenix well-regarded or just a diploma mill? I see their ads on TV all the time and all that tells me is that they have a lot of money to spend on advertising.
Diploma mill. It’s heartbreaking as a librarian to see all these people working so hard on worthless degrees from various fake-ass schools. Especially because half of them have no business being in college at all and half of them deserve so much better.
I don’t personally trust a diploma from any place that doesn’t have a real-life brick and mortar presence. But the management and HR reps where I work now absolutely love UoPhoenix, they push it all the time and a bunch of people I work with are taking classes there.
And if they’re an accredited higher learning institution, then they aren’t a diploma mill. A friend of mine was taking classes for an associate’s in social work, and the math they were testing seemed fairly rigorous when she asked for my help on it. But, it’s too easy to cheat and get someone else to take your tests for you.
They are a for-profit corporation, owned by the Apollo Group (they weaseled their way into getting accredited despite this fact). I’ve railed on for-profit “universities” before - in fact it was a fairly recent thread where someone was soliciting advice on potentially going to one. I won’t rehash it all but suffice to say there is a fundamental conflict of interest here: their loyalty, first and foremost, will always be in reporting profits to shareholders, not to the ideals that educational institutions are supposed to represent.
If you ask me, all of the for-profits should have their accreditations stripped from them. In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s been tried but dirty politics got in the way.
The thing that seems so weird to me is these online schools and private schools that advertise on TV, like Westwood College, are all so expensive for what they give. I can go to a community college for a lot and I mean a lot less and get most of the same courses. I guess not eveyone has convenient access to a community college, but it amazes me why you’d pay so much for a degree when you can at least complete a huge number of credits at a local community college
A diploma mill/student loan scam factory here in Chicago got busted a few years ago. They were offering a CNA program that cost private university prices, took a year (8 weeks classroom/8 weeks clinical is typical at community colleges), and had NO clinical component.
Legit CNAs provide a lot of bedside care, and for quality care, the smart money seems to favor (now nearly extinct) diploma RNs.
They’re not a diploma mill. University of Phoenix is accredited by the Higher Learning Commission and is a member of the North Central Association. Diploma mills do not get that accreditation.
I know 2 people who have UP degrees. Both of them are knowledgeable in their fields. And that is not something you get from a diploma mill, either.
Are they or aren’t they accredited? It’s a true/false question, not a maybe. If the education they’re providing isn’t credible, then it wouldn’t be accredited. I’m going to say there’s a hefty [citation needed] for saying they weaseled their way into it. Aren’t accrediting bodies neutral third parties?
Attacking them for being for-profit is one thing, and that’s a valid criticism (although when one’s employer is paying for the credits, one doesn’t tend to care how much they cost). But just because they’re for-profit doesn’t necessarily mean they provide a shitty education.
Clothahump, I hear what you are saying. I also know that it doesn’t take a BSN to give excellent patient care, which is what their ad seems to be implying. When I hear about cheating online or having someone else take a test for you, it disturbs me. I went to a community college and then a state college (back in the day when things cost a nickel) and received an excellent education. If it costs $35,000 to earn an LVN or RN degree, something is wrong. I am not trying to single out U of P, however the ad I saw is inflammatory, to say the least.
They are regionally accredited, but your unswerving faith in those “neutral third parties” may be misplaced. The way most for-profits do it is by buying up a struggling, already-accredited school and turning it into a corporation:
Cite. Of course, every time these accreditations are called into question, lawmakers pretend to make a fuss about it (which is also discussed in the quoted article), but ultimately they get their palms greased and the for-profit fat cats continue on their merry way, scamming the country out of billions in federal financial aid that those accreditations make their students eligible for (students at for-profits make up about 10% of college students overall, but account for a whopping 47% of all defaults on student loans).
It kinda does. If you’re willing to enroll anyone and everyone who’s capable of filling out a FAFSA, you’re spending gobs of money on your TV marketing budget, and maximizing profits is your institution’s mission statement - how could you possibly apply the same standards of academic rigor that we’ve come to expect from institutions that earned their reputations the hard way?
I know why some people go to these “diploma mills” because they accept you the second you walk in the door, fill out FAFSA, charge a crapload of money, keep you there as long as possible, and you’re stuck with student loans. People I’ve known went to these diploma mills…Everest, Bryman, Univerity of Phoenix, and no name diploma mills that no one knows about, because there are waitlists at community colleges up to 3 or 4 years for some specialities, and this is faster, BUT a lot more money.
My MD husband decided to add an MBA to his resume and did it through U of Phoenix. It cost a freaking fortune and was seriously hard work. All exams had to be monitored by an appropriate education professional in our area so cheating is not that easy. I suppose if you had a good friend who qualified… anything is possible. He is proud of this degree but the exhorbitant fee still steams me to this day.
That’s the thing…him being an MD, I can’t imagine he couldn’t have applied to and easily gotten accepted to one of any number of MBA programs from regular schools. And seeing as a lot of MBA students are working professionals, it’s easy to find programs that offer evening classes, online classes, etc…it’s not like UoP was his only choice.
Did he say why he chose them over a traditional school that ,even if it cost the same, would have at least looked better on a resume?
My brother told me a couple of years ago… he was advised by a guy in HR that diplomas from the diploma mill universities were being looked upon askance… That’s to put it lightly.
Recently Gwinnett Public school fired several teachers who got advanced degrees from the fake schools for fraud. I’v encouraged my job to stop having these charlatans over to snooker these young guys who don’t know any better…
That Frontline piece is a shame…
Which I guess just goes to show you that it depends on who you ask. Senior management at my employer has made it quite clear that an online degree would be worthless to them. Having not actually done it, I can’t say how rigorous the online program is, but just the fact that there are some employers out there who will roll their eyes at your resume when they see UofPhoenix puts one at a disadvantage.
My husband and daughter are both in very technical fields, and occasionally swap stories about spectacularly incompetent people in their workplaces. After the laughter, the listener will ask “DeVry or U of Phoenix?” and usually it’s one or the other.
So I guess there is something good to say about U of Phoenix…if you’re hiring someone with a degree from UoP, make sure that this person is actually competent.
Don’t you work in a call center? No offense to people who work in call centers but I wouldn’t trust the higher-ups at a call center to be a good meter of educational institutions.
Why would they push their workers to get a degree from a school that would ultimately give them the ability to leave the call center? Unless they have a pretty good idea that the degree won’t help you leave the call center at all.
And seriously, I am not calling call-center workers un-educated. I have several friends who work in or have worked in call centers, some with MBAs. But they have used those jobs as “placeholders” until they can get a job in their field of education.