Like, are there double paned windows with a vacuum in the middle for higher performance or fridges/freezers with vacuum panel walls or anything?
Windows - definitely. Try googling “double pane windows”
Fridge/freezer - no idea
There are vacuum insulated pipes for cryogenic use (e.g. for transport of liquid gases/coolants etc)
I don’t think commercial double glazing typically uses vacuum between the panes - typically they use an inert gas such as Argon - because the seal is less likely to fail if the internal pressure is similar to ambient.
There are vacuum insulated panels used in acoustic dampening, but I wouldn’t say they are common. It makes sense, too. Sound can’t travel through a vacuum.
Double pane windows aren’t a vacuum, there is air between the panes. Most are just atmospheric, but some high priced ones have trapped gas, something like argon. But they’re certainly not a vacuum.
Vacuum-insulated consumer-grade windows are pretty uncommon. Here’s one:
Any useful level of vacuum in the space between the panes would allow the atmosphere to squeeze the two panes together until they make contact in the center. As that link shows, you have to use tiny spacers at regular intervals to maintain the gap between the panes. If you don’t see that grid of spacers, then you’re looking at a conventional double- or triple-pane window with argon gas between the panes at a pressure somewhere close to ambient.
And that is the problem with vacuum insulation. It works well for small, round things like beverage bottles and cryogenic dewars, where the total forces involved are small and the shape is conducive to handling those forces with a modest amount of material. But for large flat-paneled things like residential windows and refrigerators, you end up with cost, weight, and reliability issues because you need to add a ton of extra material and/or design to make it sturdy enough to last.
Thank you for enlightening me. It makes perfect sense that in a large flat area like a window, you don’t need much pressure to bend it slightly, and we’re only talking about a millimeter or two.
As I’m typing, it occurs to me that the weather needs to be considered as well. With a fixed amount of gas trapped between the panes, it had better be something that will expand and contract at the same rate as the air outside of the window, else it will shatter on days of extreme barometer pressure.
I think that putting argon into double-paned windows is just a way for them to make more profit. The advantages (in improved insulation) are minimal and it’s likely to leak away in a few years anyway.
A decent gap and some silica gel will do better for less money.
Tyre fitters try to sell you nitrogen instead of air for the same reason.
That’s why it’s usually argon, or sometimes krypton. Both are “noble” gasses and you can find them both on the far right right of the periodic table. The thing about “noble” gasses is they don’t expand or contract all that much due to temperature.
Not for insulation purposes but air conditioner/refrigeration systems are first evacuated (to a vacuum) before adding the refrigerant.
My addition for clarity of subject above
IDK what you consider a decent gap, but there is a sweetspot as if the gap gets too large a well established convection current sets up in inside the pane with highly different in/out temps and enhances heat transfer. A smaller gap, (or one with a 3rd pane or plastic sheet) interrupts that flow and while it still can happen, it doesn’t really get a main flow of circulation going, but just some minor ones which interfere with each other.
High-end refrigerators will vacuum seal, but I don’t know if the doors themselves are vacuum insulated.
I completely agree. Added to that, how would you even know if the argon was gone? What am I going to do? Perform some DIY gas chromotagraphy to check my windows? Don’t fucking think so.
I have Bodum double-walled insulated glassware. But I’m not sure if it’s a vacuum or air between the walls. They are a bit on the pricey side, but they insulate well and drinks hot and cold look pretty in them. I use them for wine too.
The pressure in the enclosed space between the panes will be a function of temperature, density, and gas type (with the temperature being an approximate average of the indoor and outdoor temps, also affected by indoor/outdoor breezes). The pressure on the outside is barometric pressure, which can change independent of ambient temperature, but for any given geographic location, ambient pressure doesn’t vary that much.
If if were vacuum-insulated, you can be sure they’d be bragging about it in their description.
Do a search for what Amazon offers as “vacuum insulated”
In the late 1990s I was part of a team that designed a portable, solar-powered refrigerator. It was called the VaxiCool, and it was going to be marketed to the WHO and Red Cross for transporting vaccines. I was in charge of designing the electronics.
The insulation in the walls of the VaxiCool consisted of panels that were “vacuum insulated.” These panels were made by a company in Xenia, OH called VacuPanel Inc. They basically inserted rigid foam into metal foil bags, pulled a vacuum for an hour or so, then sealed the bags. The result was a rigid panel. Dimensions depended on the size of the rigid foam and bag, but a typical panel might be 8 in. X 8 in. X 1 in.
I haven’t done much research on it, but I’m pretty sure the VaxiCool never saw large production. Not sure what happened.
The “vacuum seal” that occurs with a refrigerator doesn’t involve an actual vacuum. Just a very good seal on the door and the drop in pressure as the air inside cools back down after you’ve closed the door.
All ideal gases have exactly the same relationship between pressure, temperature, and volume. While it’s true that no gas is truly perfectly ideal, and the noble gases will be a slightly better approximation to ideal gases, ordinary air under Earthly conditions is so close to ideal that the deviations are completely negligible.
Double-pane glass with broken seals are obvious because moisture gets in and fogs up the inside where you can’t clean it. So no, it’s no common for Argon to “leak out” without you knowing, since you’d still know even if it was just filled with dry clean air.