I think you are far better off paying a few bucks and having your lawyer handle it. get it right the first time.
Or is this the second time? Maybe you should yell at your divorce lawyer for letting this slip by him/her?
spooje, if I thought my divorce lawyer had screwed things up, believe me, I’d be on the horn pronto.
But here’s the relevant section from the divorce decree (paraphrased slightly): “Sauron is divested from of any interest in the residence. The ex-wife is responsible for the payment of the mortgage, taxes, and insurance on said dwelling.”
Now, my ex-wife and I were clear on what this meant. The two lawyers involved in our divorce were clear on what this meant. When I faxed this to the mortgage company four years ago, along with an explanatory letter, they said they were taking me off the mortgage.
I defy anyone with walking-around sense to tell me that what the bank did is right. Unless there’s some arcane banking rule I’m just not aware of, it seems to me they could be accused of perpetrating a fraud.
I don’t think what the bank did was right. However I used to work (very recently) at a large mortgage company. Their policy was about the same. A divorce decree could get a name taken off the official paperwork, payment coupons, etc. But the only way to make said person no longer responsible for the mortgage was to refinance.
I can’t tell you how many times I was cussed out for this policy (and I wasn’t even in the customer service department, I was in refinancing!)
**Sauron ** and Aries,
I have long thought that y’all are the ‘alternate universe’ version of my and my b’friend. We also live in B’ham. I’m 28. I have a running joke with my man where I call him “Dark Lord.” We both have kids from previous marriages. Lots of little ‘me too’ moments when I read y’all’s stuff. This seals the deal.
Last week I was smack dab in the middle of big ol’ Texas, visiting Mr. Rez’s kids (first time meeting for me). Halfway through the trip I go to the gas station to pick up snacky cakes and fizzy pops for late night snacking. All of a sudden my card is being declined. I check my balance at an ATM. Balance is fine but I can’t get money out. So I call the bank, panicked at this point because I’m 900 miles from home on a half tank of gas and no food.
Bank person: “Ma’am, I’ll have to transfer you to collections. Your account has a hold on it.”
I’m thinking this will be an easy mistake to fix, as I have not financed anything through this particular credit union. I only have the savings/checking account there. New lady in collections comes on the line:
“Ma’am, your account has been frozen because another account of yours is significantly overdrawn.”
After a minute of “I don’t have an account” we figure out it is my ex-husband’s account that I was removed from over a year ago. Well, apparently everyone removed it but the collections department.
Took alot of time on the phone, a phone call to my ex (always fun) but things got straightened out enough to where they took the hold off my account. The collections people felt sorry for me when I tearfully explained that I was almost literally 1000 miles away and could not come in, and this was supposed to be fixed a year ago.
Got home from Texas at the end of last week. Had a letter from the credit union addressed to me and the ex Mr. Rez, letting me know our account was -$200.
Here we go again. They have now attached my address to his account and are sending me his mail.
Great.
Well, you can bet the folks at the bank don’t just sit so nobody can see they don’t have pants on…
MEMO
To: Voice, Witch King, Lt. of Morgul, etc.
From: The Big Eye
Subject: Who’s Responsible For This?!?!??
Look, when we moved operations to Barad Dur, I said I wanted my name taken completely off Dol Guldur. I have here a letter from the Mirkwood National Bank claiming that we owe back mortgage payments on Dol Guldur for the last three Ages. Razzin-frazzin Elves! Always making like they’re the good guys in this Maia’s world!
I want to know who’s responsible for this, and I want it fixed, pronto. Or you’ll see what the Dark Lord’s Wrath is really like!
In other matters, somebody’s been distributing orc-food to others of my subjects. Let me emphasize that I meant it when I said, “DNFTT”!!
Tell your ex that you just learned of this loophole when you were doing some looking into getting a second mortgage. Although you’d never consider it, this loophole allows you to take a second mortgage against her house, and it’s in her best interests to have you off the mortgage.
This is awesome!
Obviously I am not a lawyer, but I believe that this could all have been avoided if, in your divorce paperwork, there had been something called a “quit claim deed.” When the WryGuy secured his divorce from his previous wife, his attorney required her to sign such a document. Since you did indeed sign the original mortgage, it is assumed that you intend to honor that, regardless of your personal circumstances (banks being completely uninterested in personal circumstances in ALL cases.) If you were told that you were no longer responsible for the mortgage, the quit claim deed ought to be in there somewhere.
Rez, you’re officially freaking me out.
Polycarp, that was the first laugh I’ve gotten out of this situation. Thank you.
LifeOnWry, my guess is that the bank will be sending the quit-claim deed info for my ex and I to sign. I have no problem with that; my question is, why didn’t the bank mention this four years ago? It was obvious what the intentions of the decree and agreement were. It seems like the bank just played fast and loose with the procedure.
I can understand the banks policy. (And empathise with liirogue for getting flack about it.)
But the bank apparently accepted the divorce stuff. Maybe they sent Sauron a letter saying “We have removed you from the mortgage in all respects. WARNING: this means if anything goes wrong we can still sue you for your immortal soul.” or maybe they ignored it or maybe they said “You are completely cleared from everything to do with the mortgage” but if you rang up and said “In the hypothetical situation that … can you still collect from me?” they’d admit it, but my inner cynic says that they’ll swear blind on a stack of bibles 7m high that they’d removed him in every respect, and only paying a lawyer to look up obscure banking codes would get to the truth from his perspective.
Of course, we’d have to see the correspondance, etc, to know what happened. Maybe I’m just being pessimistic.
STOP THE PRESSES, figuratively, of course.
Shouldnt your current lending institution have done a title search (before the closing) and found this problem a long time ago? When the credit report was pulled for the current loan, shouldnt the other loan have shown up then?
If it wasn`t on your credit report or found through a title search two years ago why is it showing up now??
Get a copy of the title search for your current loan if you can.
I think there`s something fishy going on here - as has been mentioned.
I think whuckfistle hit the nail on the head.
I was told that a quit claim deed qould not affect a persons liability for the mortgage. The qcd simply does that; it removes a party from the deed, but nothing else.
Please keep in mind that my company could have been differently, and it wasn’t unheard of for the managers to dispense incorrect info.
See, that’s what I don’t understand. My wife, the lovely and talented Aries28, and I bought a house a little over two years ago. We went through multiple financial hoops to get the house. I can guarantee you that if this was showing up on my credit report two years ago, we’d have learned of it then. We wouldn’t have been able to buy the house if I had another mortgage. My vast Middle-Earth holdings don’t seem to impress American bankers, and what little money I have in this reality ain’t enough to impress two separate mortgage companies with my ability to pay for two houses.
Shade, you’ve touched upon the point where I messed up four years ago. I faxed two letters to the bank, and had a few conversations with the folks in their Assumptions department. At the end of all this, I was assured (verbally) that everything that needed to be done to remove me from the mortgage had been done, and that I was free and clear. Sadly, I did not insist on written verification of that fact, and so I find myself in this mess. I’ve got the copies of the letters I sent them; I don’t have a letter back from them.
Let my pain be a lesson to all: Document! Document!
I am divorced with both an ex-wife and an ex-house.
My lawyer informed me that a quit-claim deed will remove your rights to a property but will not remove your legal responsibilties to the mortgage. The divorce agreement cannot alter the contract between the bank and the homeowners. You bank might be nice in the face of a divorce degree and quit-claim but they can still go after you in the even your Ex defaults on the loan.
I refused to sign the quit-claim. If I was responsible for the mortgage, I’d keep my interest in the property, too.
I made my ex-wife refinance the house in her name only. That was a condition of the divorce degree. (There was a just-in-case clause that if the bank refused her then I would refinance in my name and she’d move out. That was a bet on my part that I lost.)
-B
The F’ing server ate my lengthy response…damnit
Basically your attorney did screw up, he should have put some teeth in the divorce decree forcing ex to refinance.
As others have stated ownership and mortgages are way different from the note (the promise to pay).
The bank made the original loan on the strength of two borrowers and it would be highly unlikely they would let one off the hook with out looking very closely at your ex’s credit and income.
The divorce decree states that all the parties on the divorce decree agree that your ex is responsible, but the bank is not one of the parties on the divorce.
Sorry to be brief and blunt but didn’t have time to re-type all my lost post.
What a bitch! This is beyond inexcusable. Children are not to be used as pawns against an ex. She needs a smack upside the head. Probably several.
Pardon?? This is the mortgage thing thread. 
Did you read what I quoted?
Never mind, missed the smiley the first time.
Damn white smilies. 
Holy crap! What a nightmare!
I just read this to my husband and we were both thinking the same thing: Shit! Did he take his name off the mortgage when his ex-wife got the house in their divorce? We both remember him signing a quit-claim thingy, yes. It might not be called a “quit-claim” exactly, in Canada, but it’s the same thing: You quit your claim to the property meaning you are no longer on the deed as a joint tenant/owner and have no rights with respect to the property.
I’m sorry to be so stupid, but I’m confused about some of the terminology:
Er, don’t they mean they removed your name as a joint tenant/property owner? Theoretically, the property itself could be in some random stranger’s name for all they care, as long as the mortgage loan itself is in the name of some responsible party, no? My pea-brain can’t compute how you could still be a liable party on a mortgage which does not bear your name.
So basically, the bank, knowing full well your intent, failed to ensure that the paperwork to remove you from the mortgage loan, or note, was filled out. Not that they would care as it seems you’re still on the hook, so they’re covered.
Yet, how can they now refuse to send the paperwork to YOU, instead of the ex, considering that, by some legal mumbo-jumbo, you are indeed liable? WTF? Isn’t this sort of like saying they need your ex-wife’s permission to let you off the hook? I don’t understand why they’re involving her in it at all.
How can your name be on the “mortgage loan”, but not on the “mortgage”? What’s the difference? I thought the mortgage is itself the “note”, the promise to pay, with the security or collateral being the property.