Apparently I'm wealthy enough to have two mortgages on two different houses

The BBQ Pit
1

Truly angry for the first time in quite a while here.

A little backstory: I got divorced four years ago. My ex-wife kept the house, and as a result everything (deed, mortgage, taxes, etc.) was transferred into her name.

Two years ago, my new wife, the lovely and talented Aries28, and I purchased a home. Everything went smoothly – no problems on the credit checks or anything.

Two days ago, we pulled a credit report and were astonished to discover that I was still listed on the mortgage of my ex-wife’s house.

I called the mortgage company, and subsequently learned the following:

[ul]It is not possible to talk with a representative of Standard Federal Mortgage without a court order, or the sacrifice of at least one kidney.

If I am actually lucky enough to track down a live representative of Standard Federal Mortgage, he or she will have no idea how to help me without knowing a loan number.

I am a bad person for not keeping the account number of the mortgage on a house I left five years ago, and signed over to my ex-wife four years ago. I should know better.[/ul]

After much phone-wrangling and hold-music-enduring, I finally tracked down the proper person in the proper department to handle my problem. It’s fairly simple, right? The mortgage company was supposed to take my name off the mortgage four years ago, and in fact they did. It’s just a mistake that it got put back on there somehow.

I explain all this, and there is a flurry of keystrokes and paperscratching. Then: “Can I put you on hold for a moment, Dark Lord?”

This doesn’t sound good. The theme from Jaws plays for a moment in the background.

She comes back on the line: “We removed your name from the mortgage now held by your ex-wife, but you are still listed as a liable party.”

Silence from me.

“Sauron? Sir? Are you there?”

“Yes, I’m here. So let me get this straight: Four years ago, I sent you folks two letters, a copy of my divorce decree, and the section of the divorce agreement that specifies that I have turned over all rights to the property in question. That section also specifies that my ex-wife is responsible for all debts related to the house, including the mortgage, taxes and insurance. Your company was kind enough to remove my name from the paperwork, but you haven’t taken me off as a responsible party for the debt.”

“That’s correct. Your lawyer should have explained that to you at the time of your divorce.”

“Actually,” I said, “the lawyer made it pretty clear in the divorce agreement that the mortgage was my ex-wife’s responsibility. I think YOU folks should have explained that better when I went through this process four years ago. Never mind that, though: How do I get my name removed as a responsible party on this mortgage?”

“Oh, that’s relatively simple,” this person chirped. “You just need to get an assumption packet. It has the paperwork to do that. You and your ex-wife fill it out, send it in, and that’s all there is to it.”

“Okay. Great. Send me a packet.”

“Oh, I can’t do that, sir.”

I am again dumbfounded. “What? Why?”

“Your name is not listed on the mortgage. I can’t send you any legal documents related to the mortgage. Your ex-wife will have to request the packet. When she does, we’ll send it to her.”

And at that point I lost it.

I vaguely remember screaming into the phone. I have a dim recollection of my co-workers gathering outside my office, staring in wonder as a stream of invective and profanity issued from my mouth.

I am lost in the bowels of a bank’s bureaucracy. If I don’t come back in the next 24 hours, assume the maze has conquered me and I am gone forever.

2

Okay, your name isn’t on the mortgage, so they won’t let you see the paperwork, yet you’re still liable if she defaults? Is that correct?

:eek: Can they DO that?

3

It was at this point that I heard a popping sound and smoke started pouring from my ears. . .and* I* was only reading about it. I have no constructive suggestions, but you do have my profound sympathy as a hostage of bureaucracy.

4

I can sympathize. The only way I got off my ex-husband’s mortgage was when he refinanced the house. At least our mortgage company told us that was the case. I was lucky that he did do it too, else I’d have been in deep shit when I tried to buy a truck.

5

Apparently they can. A subsequent discussion with a supervisor, held after my blood pressure dropped back into the three-digit range, confirmed this sad state of affairs.

I asked the lady, “Can you tell me what motivation my ex-wife is going to have to actually go through with this process? If she thinks it through, she’ll realize she has, essentially, a no-fault mortgage. She can quit paying, keep the house, and you guys will come after me to collect the money.”

The lady agreed this was so.

I have to believe the mortgage company screwed up somehow – there shouldn’t be any way I’m still listed on that stupid mortgage. And yet I am. And I’m dependent upon the good graces of my ex-wife (with whom my relationship would be best described as strained) to get off the freakin’ thing.

6

As much as I hate to drop the L-word, I think you need a lawyer for this. They can fight the bank’s BS with their own powerful legal BS.

7

Obviously, Major Major was able to have children, and they became bank managers in Alabama. My sympathies.

8

Sauron, let me ask a stupid question from the peanut gallery.

Four years ago, interest rates on mortgages were higher than they are now. Do you remember what the APR way back when you closed was? First, I’m shocked that your wife didn’t refinance to a lower rate. Second, having a lower rate may be an incentive for ex-wife to refi. But now it comes down to this: what’s it worth to you to get that ball rolling?

You can go through lawyers and go through a lot of money quickly. Or…maybe you can offer to pay one of your wife’s points in the refi as an incentive. Its not really a bribe; its just how business gets done in America.

So, is it worth paying one point to be truly parted from this mortgage…? (you’d pay more in legal fees and have no guarantee she’d do it the other way…)

9

Actually, my ex-wife and I didn’t buy the house in 2000; we bought it in 1998. If I’m remembering correctly, the rate was 6.75.

I’ve left a message for my ex-wife and e-mailed her, as well. My hope is that she will want me off the mortgage just as badly as I want to be off it. We’ve been divorced for four years, we were separated a year before that, she’s remarried … she wants absolutely nothing to do with my name.

I’m not at all inclined to pay my ex-wife to do something that the mortgage company should have done four years ago. If it comes to that, I’d rather pay a lawyer.

10

Well, as bad as that is (and I empathize), let’s look at it from the bank’s position for a second, using an admittedly absurd hypothetical.

Sauron is actually Bill Gates, richest man on the planet. He and his ex-wife borrowed 100% of the money needed to purchase a modest, $10,000,000 home, each co-signing the mortgage. The bank is excited about this arrangement, because, even if the market tanks or the house is destroyed by an uninsured earthquake, they are sure to get their money back, seeing as how the have the richest man on the planet on the hook for the money. Ex-wife, a beautiful young woman of the type that tends to marry incredibly wealthy individuals like Sauron, has no real skills, or ability to pay the monthly payments on a $10,000,000 mortgage, but she’s on the hook too.

Unfortunately, one day, as all too often happens, love fades, and Sauron and ex-wife decide to part ways. Without the consent of the bank, they agree, as between them, that ex-wife is solely responsible to re-pay the $10,000,000.

Tragically, ex-wife defaults on her very first mortgage payment ($10,000,000, at 5% year, for 30 years, is only $53,700 a month, but, even so, ex-wife can’t afford it.) The bank comes to foreclose, and determines that the house was wildly overvalued – it’s only worth $5,000,000! They sue. (Depending on the state they may not be able to do any more than take the house, and this becomes somewhat a moot point.) They will go after both ex-wife and Bill, er, Sauron. They never agreed to let him off the hook – indeed how could they possibly? She is a huge credit risk by herself – would never have gotten a loan of that size. Bill’s credit was the driving factor of the loan decision, and if he were able to avoid liability just by getting a divorce, it would be an unfair windfall to him. (Won’t someone think of the poor multi-billion dollar corporations?!)

The bank wins a deficiency judgment (the difference between the current value of the house, which they keep, and the amount of the loan) of $5,000,000. They enforce the judgment against Sauron, which he pays out of petty cash. Sauron now can, presumably, and depending on the terms of the divorce settlement, sue ex-wife for the same amount.

At least I think that’s how it works. So, yea, he’s kinda still on the hook, until the bank say’s he’s not. Or until the loan is paid off, by refinance, sale, or whatever.

11

I understand your point but let me go ahead and say I would rather line a lawyer’s pockets with cash than pay one single red cent to this woman’s refinance.

She is vindictive, hateful and spiteful and those are her good qualities.

Plus she is remarried and I doubt her new husband would be too keen on her ex husband paying her points for her.

And before anyone says I’m just the bitter new wife let me give you a few examples of the behavior we have had to deal with with this woman:

  1. She refused to sign the divorce papers in the beginning just to delay the process so we had to change our wedding date. She would send in papers to her lawyer unsigned then claim she forgot to sign them. She wouldn’t show up for appointments just to make things take longer. Once she realized the divorce was going through she then used the tactic of not letting Sauron’s kids come to our wedding.

  2. We took the kids on a trip to the beach last summer and when we went to pick them up she cried and carried on telling the kids how alone she was going to be and didn’t they care that she was sad? When one of them asked her if she wasn’t happy they were going and knowing they would have fun and her response was, “No, I didn’t want you to go on this trip in the first place. I hope you don’t have any fun!”

  3. The day after Xmas we made plans to go to my in-laws house to eat lunch with the kids, open presents and spend time with them. She didn’t bring them when she was supposed to. When we called she claimed she got the times mixed up. Sauron told her he would be there in half an hour to get them. When he showed up she had taken them to Taco Bell so they wouldn’t be hungry to have the lunch with us.

My advice has been that Sauron call her every single day until she makes the call, gets the paperwork in and gets this taken care of.

But, that’s just the bitter new wife talking.

12

shelbo, I understand where you’re coming from with your hypothetical. Two points, though:

  1. I went through this process with the same bank four years ago to have my name (and, I thought, all my liability) removed from that mortgage. I was told at the time by the bank that everything was done. I’ve had two credit checks since that time, and neither one showed this mortgage. I dunno what changed, but somehow the bank started re-reporting me as a liable party on the mortgage. The bank can’t explain it.

  2. The house in question is worth at least twice the outstanding balance on the mortgage, according to the appraisal that was done when the deal was closed six years ago.

I’m just really, really hoping against hope this goes smoothly.

13

You’re playing Catch 22 with your buttcheeks.

Hey, are you guys also wealthy enough to have two perfect bedet covers or comforters or paintings or whatever was for your bedroom?

14

Buffy DVDs, too, lieu. Don’t forget the multiple copies of those. :wink:

15

Now, now…those weren’t a luxury item those were a necessity.

And for those who have asked, NO…I did not go out and buy my MPB. I am paying off my credit card this year if it kills me so no purchases for the house for a while.

I talked to the mortgage guy who is working on our refinance now and he said as long as the divorce papers show that Sauron has no interest in the house that that is all he needs.

We still have to straighten it out to get it off his credit report though. But, at least it won’t mess up what we are trying to do right now.

16

Tell your ex that you just learned of this loophole when you were doing some looking into getting a second mortgage. Although you’d never consider it, this loophole allows you to take a second mortgage against her house, and it’s in her best interests to have you off the mortgage.

I’m sure it’s probably not true, but it sounds sort of true and if she’s as nasty as Aries28 has indicated she’ll want to be sure she’s in the clear.

17

Sounds like you’re really torqued about this. So sue the buggers for emotional distress.

18

5’6", maybe 5’7", curly (but long; though she may since have cut it) red hair, vibrant smile, what I have been told is a tempting rack, but mixed with the personality of barbed wire, answers to the name Jessica?

Why do I ask? Oh, no reason…

19

OOOOOOOOO… I like your nasty, twisted thinking, ShibbOleth! :wink:

Whew! That’s a relief. Although until the stake is officially through this bloodsucker’s heart, I wouldn’t rest easy.

I think there should be a special circle in Hell for parents who use their kids against their ex-spouses.

20

My condolences Sauron. Having to talk to lawyers, bankers AND your X all in the same week. Blech.

I hope this gets itself worked out, though if not, i can mail you my persuasion kit.
I’ll even pick up the tab for the extra weight of the slegde hammer and the seven rolls of duct tape.

Best of Luck.