Apparently, the ACLU are the real terrorists...

[Baldwin]

When I started reading the Kalamazoo editorial, at first I thought it might be satire. But by the end, I realized the writer is one of those people who mentally are so close to being caricatures that it’s pointless to even parody them. I have to wonder, though – why do people assume that the ACLU is nothing but atheists? I’m pretty sure a lot of members are religious people, including clergy, who believe in the separation of church and state.

Having been surrounded by religion all my life, individual displays don’t bother me, but I do get tired of public officials spreading God over everything like ketchup. (An image I stole from the 1964 movie “The Best Man”, a little-seen masterpiece about campaign politics.)

[Otto]

Good thing that all the major issues regarding free speech and freedom of religion are resolved. Because the ACLU has time to harass a school over its “God Bless America” sign.

They aren’t terrorists, but they’re more than a little wiggy in their priorities.

Remember that although the ACLU is a national organization, each of its affiliate chapters has a great deal of autonomy in dealing with issues in its region. That one chapter is working on one issue in its area doesn’t really say much about the activities of the group as a whole.

Anyway, why does everything the ACLU do have to be of landmark status? For every landmark case there are hundreds of little cases and incidents, initially important to no one but those involved, but which taken together form the patchwork of constitutional law and precedent. Are you suggesting the ACLU ignore little violations because something bigger might come along?

I’d also ask how many things that chapter of the ACLU is working on that don’t get reported in the national media.

[anya_marie]

It must drive the ACLU supporter nuts to cruise the American highways and see sign after sign which reads, “God Bless America” or “Pray for America.”

I find it charming, somehow, to see these signs, even at my most grumpy. I would have liked to have seen them more before September 11th.

yes, now with our opening but tear-filled eyes, we can clearly see that it was wrong to bar teachers from displaying a Bible while allowing copies of pornography to be kept in the school library. Regarding our Boy Scouts, we now realize the stupidity of allowing the wolves to be in charge of the sheep.What on earth were we thinking?

Quite a few elementary teachers I knew had bibles, I also found some teachers who brought their Bibles had them covered with a calico or floral print. YMMV!! And now we come to the obligatory citeless charges of pornography in School Libraries! IN Michigan, no less!Show us the proof of the porno, or go play in traffic! :wally: [sub]Who spiked this asswipe’s 2% milk?![/sub] Oh look at the funny felchbait motherfucker!:rolleyes: Bring me a cite or this guy’s head on a platter!
And once again we find the obligatory smear charges directed at gays, for wanting to be Scouts, and troop leaders. This is so unbelievably WEAK, baseless and misleading. Hasn’t the research been finding that most pedophiles are staight?
And the obligatory wake-up-call, FWIW. Ending on a weak note for the obligatory smears and libels, the Indiana judge gives it a 2 and cordially invites the author to eat shit, and drop dead.

We also see they were wrong and evil when they had our public places stripped of manger scenes at Christmas. And what about those pictures of Jesus that they demanded we remove from the walls of our schools? What true historic figure has done more to impact our world for good? How many hospitals, nursing homes, orphanages, shelters, and missions have been raised for the sake of this, the greatest of leaders?

How many,putz? Give us numbers of both and prove it!
Don’t many Christian churches put up manger scenes? [sub] that is where i go to find them.[/sub] While Jesus is a force for good, should we not count how much havoc has been wroght in his name?

[RTFirefly]

*Originally posted by Otto *
Anyway, why does everything the ACLU do have to be of landmark status?..Are you suggesting the ACLU ignore little violations because something bigger might come along?

No, I’m suggesting that they are ignoring bigger things to work on trivialities like this one.

Take SLAPPS - that is, Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation, a corporate tactic that emerged in a big way during the 1990s. Say a corporation wants to put a facility in your town, and you go down to the town meeting to speak against the corporation. Next thing you know, they’ve hit you with a libel suit.

They have no chance of winning unless you just plain don’t show up in court, but it forces you to show up, and pay a lawyer to be prepared. Costs you and them about the same amount of money, which is no big deal for them, but a real problem for you. I think you can see the chilling effect on free speech here.

But if the ACLU has taken on SLAPPs, I haven’t heard the first thing about it. And I’d have to say that sort of intimidation is much more worrisome than a schoolyard “God Bless America” sign.

I’d also ask how many things that chapter of the ACLU is working on that don’t get reported in the national media.

Well, the national organization keeps sending me their promotional littcher, because I’m on a bunch of lefty mailing lists (for good reason) and would like me to join. They don’t mention any of this there, either. From reading their stuff, you’d think that if the Religious Right went out of business, there’d be no remaining threats to our First Amendment rights.

So excuse me if I think the ACLU’s priorities are a bit out of joint.

[CyberHippy]

OK, I passed out last night in the middle of Enterprise so I felt a little guilty this morning, checked in, and lo and behold the thread’s ALIVE!!! Quick review:

Blackclaw came out of the gate with the excellent and unique Bowling Balls = Monkies felching poulty? which made the point about the author’s disconnect with reality quite well.

Stoid paid just enough attention to know it wasn’t worth her attention, thanks for the bump…

cleosia took on the religious angle quite well, but Sofa King stole the show with F -U -C -K -Y -O -U -A -C -L -U!!! - I think an entire dance number, if not a 3-act play, could be based on this piece of genius!

As I noted previously, december has captured the absurdity of the entire argument quite well.

RTFirefly made a valiant attempt at playing Devil’s Advocate, and Otto did an excellent job of mauling the point with facts.

anya marie has taken up the task of ranting quite nicely, I am especially proud of:

Oh look at the funny felchbait motherfucker! Bring me a cite or this guy’s head on a platter!

Exquisite! Add felchbait to the list of band-names, please!

Now, RTFirefly, your point about SLAPPS would make sense if SLAPPS were being covered by the major media, but they’re not, so why would we see anything about the ACLU fighting them?

A quick search of the ACLU website found many references to SLAPPS, including this article in which the ACLU successfully fought a SLAPP. There are many others.

They have plenty of other things going on, so many that they couldn’t possibly include them all in the literature they send you.

OK, the previews look good, I’ll check in on the thread at the end of the day…

[Short]

I, for one am glad, in this time of tragedy, that we have something to laugh at.

Some of the creationist crowd are doing a far better job of discrediting themselves than any evidence based critique could do.

Yes, folks, the folks at the institute for creation research think PBS’s evolution series is comparable with the Sept. 11 attacks.*

This reminds me of the over use of the word “Nazi.” A few years ago Tom Tomorrow had a cartoon that summed that linguistic oddity up rather well.
And another.

I doubt anyone but a few proud wacknuts out there take any of this over-the-top rhetoric seriously.

cheers,

-Short

*ICR has cleaned this up since it was first posted. For about a week they had the name of the late Solicitor General wrong as well as Sputnik being launched in 1945.

[MEBuckner]

RTFirefly:

Doing searches of the ACLU website (“Search the ACLU’s entire site”):

For search term “‘god bless america’”: 3 hits

For search term “SLAPP”: 57 hits

[Katisha]

*Originally posted by CyberHippy *
**From the Kalamazoo, MI Gazette, we have This Article in which it is explained that “The ACLU are terrorists like the Taliban, both would love to rid the world of Christians.”
**

You know, this is yet another of those examples of one nutty, loudmouthed person giving a bad name to others.

Not all Michiganians are like that.

[sub]Oh yeah, right, not all Christians are either…[/sub]

[MEBuckner]

You know, this is yet another of those examples of one nutty, loudmouthed person giving a bad name to others.

You know, I agree. That guy does give nutty, loudmouthed people a bad name.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

Well, in the interests of accuracy, I’d like to point out something. The first link–

http://kz.mlive.com/columns/index.ssf?/news/stories/20011016kopnvholden1016.frm

–was not a “Kalamazoo editorial”. It was a letter to the editor:

Allan Curtis Holden of Kalamazoo is the owner of a retail store located in the Plainwell and Otsego area.

Here’s some rebuttal, so you won’t think everybody in Kalamazoo is a total loony.

http://kz.mlive.com/columns/index.ssf?/news/stories/20011019kopnvduross1019.frm

America needs the ACLU more than ever
Friday, October 19, 2001
BY SEAN P. DUROSS

A viewpoint in the Kalamazoo Gazette on Oct. 16 reads more like a sermon than a reasoned argument.

<snip>

He calls the ACLU an “American terrorist group” shortly after accusing the group of employing hate-filled words as a weapon. Are his words not hateful? Perhaps he has forgotten, as the Christian church might like to, the Crusades, the Salem witch hunt and countless other examples of brutality inflicted by the Christian church on non-believers. What would an ideal world under the viewpoint writer’sview be like? Would any non-Christians be permitted? It is thanks to the work of groups like the ACLU that the writer can freely express his viewpoint without fear of persecution.

Sean P. Duross of Portage is a banker and reservist in the United States Marine Corps.

[Otto]

Here’s some rebuttal, so you won’t think everybody in Kalamazoo is a total loony.

I lived in Kalamazoo for ten years, and in my experience, everybody in town was a total looney.

Oh, and Katisha, any good Michigander knows that “Michiganian” is the devil’s neologism.