you don’t beat your child into submission and then question why they aren’t more independent.
You mean just like I could have a Black friend make a video for me, right? Because, apparently, that’s not possible to do while getting a Black friend to take a picture, is.
I don’t know if this is either extreme hubris on your part or simple ignorance. I’m leaning towards the latter.
I am? No, I don’t think I am. In fact, I know I’m not. But that won’t stop you from claiming I am.
Sure you did.
You mean you’ve never heard the media, and even the general public, express shock and surprise that there are actually Black conservatives who actually dare to vote Republican (who get a large amount of vitriol directed their way)? Because, let me tell you, I have. Hence my name which, funnily enough, you consider trollish.
I lol’d. You ought to read more of my posts. I don’t race bait. If you want to see race-baiting, I can point you to some threads with examples of race-baiting. I do mock the whole “If you disagree with a minority, you must be a racist” schtick, though.
I’ve heard that opinions can’t be wrong but, in this case, they’re wrong.
Yes, I did watch the video. Not sure why you think I didn’t. And again, I point out, she was being beaten on her clothes with a belt. I’ve gotten worse, and don’t see much the big outrage surrounding the whole thing. You’ve gotten into your mind that because you perceive it as bad, it must be bad. I happen to disagree. Should she have gotten beaten for what she did? Maybe, maybe not. Did the beating cross the line? I don’t think so. She wasn’t being beaten with any weird kind of object (i.e., a pipe, an extension cord or some other weird object) and she didn’t suffer, as far as I can tell, any broken or fractured bones.
Now, I’m slightly curious. Are you mad because of how he went about beating his child or because he beat her?
A mistake is smacking your kid in a fit of anger when you have a no hit policy or screaming when a talk is appropriate. What this guy did was either a psychotic break or a fundamental part of who he is and how he relates to his family. People don’t act this way as a one off mistake.
I don’t care if she released this out of spite. She deserves to be angry and spiteful. She is the victim. If this is the worst she does to him, he’s off lucky.
I agree with you, and it’s certainly…interesting…to see how many people who are admitting to abusive histories are downplaying the situation and are falling into either camp.
One of my concerns is that one of those people who’s downplaying it works with at-risk teenagers.
Just in case you forgot:
I think I’ve made it pretty clear that a) I thought this was abuse b) I think all spanking is abusive c) I think it’s sad it’s common place in certain areas and d) you’d be surprised who the child abuser/wife beater/closet alcoholic/etc can be.
That’s a pretty low blow, but I’m not surprised, what with it coming from you.
I’m pretty sure it’s clear from my postings as a teacher that I’m extremely protective and caring of my students. I had a Pit Rant on their parents a few weeks back. More than once I’ve called CPS, thanks.
I’m…I’m actually agreeing with Citizen Pained and OMG? What?
Look, I’ve read this entire damned thread and it seems to me that what Citizen Pained is saying is that we do not have all relevant facts, and that saying that the judge had no redeeming qualities is wrong despite the fact that the video is horrifying. In other words, that we shouldn’t judge based on one incident. I don’t agree, particularly because the daughter and the mother have both added to the story of abuse, but it’s not an entirely unreasonable position.
And OMG is being attacked for…not being black? Who gives a shit? Not only that when he shared his reaction, which is what every one in this thread has done, everyone acted like he somehow boasted or something, even though he was just, like everyone else here, sharing his reaction.
Finally, I don’t really get the whole Bricker thing. He never excused the judges actions, he just went over whether or not it was legal, which was actually being asked at the time.
Yeah, the videos damn horrifying, yeah, the judge should be charged, but some of you have got to calm down and realise that saying that you didn’t find the video all that terrible, or debating whether or not the judges actions were legal, while saying that you do not condone his actions, does not necessarily mean that you’re apologizing for him.
CitizenPained, at best, it’s pretty tone-deaf when most people watch the video, step back aghast and react in an “OMFG! WTF?!” manner and you then start asking why the daughter posted the video. It suggests a lack of sympathy.
Talk to me like I’m slow. Years later, a daughter you admit was physically abused, releases the video out of anger (Uhhh, I would’ve thought that was obvious without anymore backstory, but whatever). Answer me in simple words: So what? What relevance does her motive for releasing the tape have? Because to me it looks like you think her motive for releasing the tape makes the abuse less bad, since it makes the family dynamics “wonky”.
edit: She could’ve released the video to try to cash in for a reality show and it wouldn’t change my opinion of what happened in the video one iota, the man is disgusting and NO ONE acts like that one day as a “slip up” to an otherwise good parenting.
edit 2: Is what happened in the video less bad because rich Judge daddy pays some living expenses for young adult daughter? How much is a slap to the face worth, phone bill?
I grew up with a step dad who was an out of control wife and child abuser. That video was very shocking for me to see. My step brothers and I were getting beat with a belt till we pissed our pants, several times every week. I’m just popping in here to say that my one and only child who just turned eighteen was raised by me without ever getting so much as a finger in her face and a verbal assault, let alone a spanking or worse.
She has scrapbooks full of awards from school for everything from perfect attendance to being accepted into the national honors society after being on the honer roll for years on end. She lettered twice: Band and wrestling.
Did she drive me nuts on occasion? Hell yes. Have I had thoughts of cutting her head off and sticking it a bowling bag in order to shut her mouth? Hell yes.
I really don’t get how the abused become abusers. Having been on the shitty end of it I could only think to myself “How the fuck do people treat other people like this” and all it did for me was stengthen my resolve to never be an animal like my old man.
Just my two cents.
Man, CitizenPained, if you can’t read for comprehension by now, there’s just not any point in continuing.
But because I am a hopeless idealist when it comes to education, I’ll give it one more try.
No. Shit. Do you honestly think that this videotape captures the FIRST and ONLY time that this man went violent? If so, you’re naïve. If not, what’s your point?
No, it is not. Not in this culture. Yes, abuse happens. Yes, it happens in unexpected arenas. But it is not “normal” and it is not “common.” Otherwise, it wouldn’t be illegal. It would be accepted, because it is (wait for it), expected and commonplace.
If you’d stopped there, you wouldn’t have then started to make excuses for his behavior. But you did.
Maybe, maybe not. Some families can’t heal, especially if the abuser himself continues to deny the issue, downplay the seriousness of the behavior, and cast aspersions on his victims. Families heal when the abuser admits his or her problem, or when the rest of the family says “fucko off” to the abuser.
Do you think that the rest of us don’t know that there are “reasons” in the mind of the abuser about his or her behavior? Do those reasons matter when outside observers look at a video and say “yep, that’s fucked up?”
It’s amazing to many of us how apparently normal people can watch videos of people “wailing” (I believe the correct term is “whaling”) on their kids and say “meh, not that bad.”
And it was not the norm a few generations ago, as much as you continue to insist.
Yes, the acceptance of the behavior may depend on location and on culture. But the fact that all 50 states in this country have laws that say “you cannot do whatever you want to your kid just because” means that even so, there are limits. And this video showed behavior that crossed those limits.
This wasn’t spanking. This was abuse. There is a difference.
No, it is not. States have laws against child abuse, and this crossed those boundaries. The law enforcement officials who reviewed the tape admitted as much.
So, you’re sticking to your assumption that this girl just happened to catch on tape the only instance of physical abuse that ever occurred in that household. Just how lucky is she that she coincidentally set up a videotape on the very day that her normal, loving father went apeshit on her with a belt?
People know that abuse is limited to a certain type of family. And whether or not you love your abusers or this girl loves her abusive father is not relevant to whether or not the video shows that the father is being abusive.
This directly contradicts your “people who seem otherwise normal” statement. LOTS of abusers are seen as good, loving parents by outsiders. That view is irrelevant to whether or not their behavior is abusive.
Again, cultural relatively is not what’s at issue here. In THIS culture, THIS man’s behavior is abusive.
What you’ve made clear is that while you’re willing to (somewhat reluctantly, it seems) say that the behavior was abuse, there are reasons the man did what he did, we mustn’t judge the family based on this video, we need to understand cultural histories of child abuse and child discipline, that we mustn’t react too hastily…all of which are apologetics for the man’s behavior.
Which is understandable, given your admitted history of family abuse. It’s pretty common that victims of abuse deny the seriousness of their experiences (or go in the opposite direction, to be sure).
As much as you seem to think you should, it’s really not necessary to give a Child Abuse 101 summary of “yes, this is awful, but we must keep in mind that…” here at the Dope, especially in the Pit. We’ve got a lot of people here who either have personal or professional (or both) experiences with child abuse. When you start to muddy a discussion of a violent videotape with “yes, but…” statements, you look like an apologist.
I just spoke with my mother and brought this up to see what she’d say about it.
Her response?
Well, a parent has a right to discipline their child. When I agreed, but said no one has a right to beat a 16 year old, she just continued to defend her position by claiming the daughter had been stealing.
Furthermore, she was another one that questioned the timing of the release, positing that it was only for revenge. I said that if that had indeed been the case, I believe it would be justified and well-deserved for such abuse.
Overall, I couldn’t believe that the history of abuse was irrelevant to her, or that there might be a custody issue on the table concerning the other daughter.
Also, there was never any hint that she thought the father may have been wrong, out of control or in danger of perpetuating more abuse in the future.
I’m even more sickened than I was earlier. I’m glad I held fast to my decision to never let that woman have a chance at grandchildren.
It’s “trollish” because you assumed we’d give a shit. “HOLY SHIT, HE’S BLACK!!! AND HE’S CONSERVATIVE!!! OH, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!” Like that’s the only thing that defines you. Like you deliberately WANT to shock people by proclaiming this.
Both. I don’t care if you’re “seen worse.” One of my professors in college spent time in a Soviet gulag. What he went through made the abuse you described look like child’s play. So I guess it wasn’t really abuse then, was it?
Or hey, my father once buried a toddler who had been beaten to death by his mother, and saw them bring the mother to the funeral in shackels. Damn, you had it pretty damned good.
I suggest you change your name to OMG a Moronic Shitstain.
Funny. That would be the meaning you derived from my name. In which case, it sounds an awfully like a personal problem to me. I mean, complaining about a username… Really… That ranks right up there with trying to be a Grammar Nazi. It’s kind of sad but what can I do about it? If you want to spend your time complaining about a username, who am I to stop you?
Oh, and considering the number of “You can’t really be Black and believe what you do!” type statements I’ve received on this board, coupled with the plethora of reasons I’ve been given why Blacks should loathe conservatives (i.e., they’re racists), I happen to think my username is quite apt, all things considered.
How can you be mad about both? If you’re mad simply because he beat her, then how he beat her isn’t all that important, as you’re not going to argue that one being beaten one way is “more preferable” to the other. You’ll consider them equally as wrong. If you’re mad because of the way he beat her, then you’re not opposed to a child being beaten by a parent so long as it is in a way you find appropriate, in which case the question is what’s the appropriate way to do it. So again I ask, which is it?
It’s a good thing I didn’t ask if you cared. I said I couldn’t get outraged because I’ve seen worse and have received worse beatings.
Let’s start from the beginning. Before you define the situation as abuse, why is it abuse? Actually, before you even do that, you’re required to answer a question posed to you earlier. Are you mad about this situation because she was beaten, period, or because of how she was beaten?
Well, duh. I wasn’t beaten to death. Obviously, not being beaten to death is preferable to being beaten to death.
Racist.
Yeah. People really gave Grammar_Nazis_R_AOK an unfair reception too.
The great thing about this thread is that it does a damned fine job of allowing some of the more flagrant arseholes on the board to identify themselves.
I mean…“I’ve seen worse”. I can’t imagine a clearer way to identify yourself as a turd than stating you use lowest common denominator as your benchmark for morality. Good job, fella.
There is no reason for this asshole to beat her like that. This video makes me sick. The adult thing to do would have been to take the computer away and not beat a disabled woman with a belt.
The suggestion was not a video, but rather, a video chat, in which you discuss, on the spot, conversations you’ve had on this board.
I mean, I guess you could have a really good actor black friend who’s done a lot of research into your participation on this board or something.
Except that doesn’t really seem to be what happened. There was ALREADY a legal based discussion on statutes of limitation going on, which at least myself and ** RNATB** had participated in. it was then me who brought up the legal sidetrack about whether it would be legal for consenting adults.
So, I am trying to understand. When you see something horrible, unless you dissolve into a puddle of emotion and fall all apart and throw up, you are “lacking in some human qualities” and suffering from Asperger’s. Got it.
And I came here to fight ignorance. Guess it’s time to leave this thread.