Aransas Cty (TX) judge beats daughter for downloading from the Internet (2004 incident)

You thought wrong. Which, I suppose, isn’t all that surprising.

So let me make sure I understand your thought process here. A belt and an extension cord as the same because they’re both whip like objects, yes? Well then, following the same logic, does this mean that paddle is the same as a 2x4, or a bat, because they could all be considered blunt objects? A rhetorical question, obviously, as there’s a very good chance that disciplining a child with a ruler or a paddle won’t get you fined or thrown in jail while disciplining with a 2x4 or a bat, will. There goes that “unspoken, crazy rule”, I suppose.

(Edit: For your sake, never get beaten with a extension cord.)

Well, first and foremost, since it’s all the rage around here, I think you mean displayed, instead of betrayed. But I’m not a Grammar Nazi (unlike some), so I’m not going to focus on that. Second of all, to answer your question, no, you can’t. Perhaps you should go back and read your own responses in this thread. For a while, you were seemingly arguing against hitting a child, period (i.e., post #197), or at the very least that it’s unecessary. Now you’re apparently arguing that it’s okay to hit a child but only in appropriate ways. So again I ask you, which is it?

If you’re arguing the first, that’s it’s not okay to physically discipline a child, then the manner in which the child is physically disciplined is irrelevant, as all physical discipline is wrong. If it’s the second, then the question is what do you think is appropriate and what do you think is not? I’ve asked this question before and I’ve gotten no answer. Hopefully I’ll get a response this time.

I direct you to the response above.

Yes, you’re right. I suppose that’s why I’ve been saying a parent should be allowed to beat a child to within an inch of his or her life, break multiple bones, cause the loss of limb or appendage, cause internal bleeding or any other such injuries.

So you find the distinction between beating your child with a belt and beating them with a crowbar to be absurd? That says more about your character (or, more specifically, state of mind) than it does anything about me.

They can? By whom? Since I’ve seen people talk about things which are culturally acceptable, you’re going to be hard pressed to argue that disciplining your child via a belt, a ruler, a paddle or a switch are considered to be equivalent to, say, disciplining your child with an extension cord, a hot iron, a 2x4 or any other such item you can think of.

Pity them, why?

…Oh, wait. Is this one of those situations where you assume that because someone, in this case me, says that he doesn’t feel any sort of outrage over the father’s actions that it somehow correlates to that someone, again me, would discipline their child in the same way? Because, you know, that would be a stupid-- not to mention foolish, presumptuous and just all around asinine-- assumption to make.

Right. So are you looking for a serious response here, or was this just added in to kind of make me roll my eyes and shake my head in shame at you?

You’re just a big meanie.

You must have missed the part where the local Police chief opined that, had there not been statutes of limitations issue in this case, the judge’s action would have been found criminal. It’s an easy overlook, it was only quoted half a dozen times ITT. But… but I thought belts were cool since they were on The List ?

(also, I got whipped with a loop of rock climbing rope once. Wouldn’t say there’s much difference between that and a sturdy leather belt. As in both hurt like a motherfuck.)

No, I did mean betray. I’m a translator, genius, words are my trade.

Bolding mine. Ignorance fought, yay !

Did you read that post ? Where did I argue one way or the other ? All that post says is my own father never did.
And for the record, I do think it’s always unnecessary. I don’t know about wrong, but it’s certainly stupid and ill-advised. I know some people do it. I can live with it when it doesn’t make me want to murder them.

More absurd assertions. I think it’s never okay to rape. I also think a gang rape is more wrong than one-on-one affairs, and conscious forcible rape is even more detestable than the Roofies trick. I think it’s never okay to kill, but I recognize the gradation between sadistic torture cum murder, premeditaded murder, spur of the moment act of passion, self-defense, acts of war and any amounts of other nuances in between.

I believe you’re trying to get a “gotcha!” out of me because in your head, if I’m okay with some forms of physical punishments then I must allow all of them. Anything else would be hypocritical inconsistency ! Gotcha !
If so, you’re a moron. Wait, we’d already established that.

Weren’t you the one complaining about hyperbole a page ago ? And witless snark ?

No, you drooling imbecile. Again, you completely miss the point. I was talking about your “one is commonly used, the other is not” rule. By this logic, and understand I’m stretching the meaning of the word to its breaking point here, using tickling as a form of punishment would be out. Or a rolled up newspaper. Or a phonebook. Or any amount of household items that would be far less cruel than what’s on The List, but would according to you be punishable since they’re not “commonly used”.

You’re going to question the notion that a large wooden paddle can break bones ? That a belt buckle can cause permanent damage ? That a caning can result in internal bleeding ?

Again, I was pointing at the crookedness of your logical process. And again, it zipped right over your head. Don’t know why I still bother, really. So I’m going to stop bothering about… now.

Whew, this brings back memories.

I know the mother doesn’t come off looking that good but I remember my mom stepping in to “beat” me to get my dad to stop beating me. She could hit me with all her might and it hardly hurt at all.

The girl also couldn’t have gotten beaten too regularly because she would have learned by the time she was 16 that the proper response to an abusive parent is contrition and an apology. When you resist punishment it just pisses them off, it seems like a challenge to authority and it seems like you don’t think you did anything wrong. Whether you did or not, you probably want the beating to be as light and short as possible. She shoulda apologized and begged her father for mercy, the parental instinct kicks in at some point IF they’re sober.

I am convinced that the conduct shown would support a finding of criminal guilt.

But I don’t think the judge applied the analysis you picture here.

pravnik and I discussed above the evidentiary problems involved in using the tape during a prosecution for another assault. And I believe the defense would be entitled to reject a juror that had seen the video before trial.

To me it looked like at that moment, she was more scared to turn her back on a psychotic with a weapon, than to get beaten the way she was. Better whipped than a chance of getting strangled.

Bull and shit. If you merely wanted to point out that you were black and conservative, what’s with the OMG?

It’s not appropriate for a parent to beat a child, period. The belt makes it worse, if only because it causes more damage, but it doesn’t matter. Beating a child is fucking wrong, dumbass, and I think you bloody well know what people are trying to say, so can the bullshit semantic games.

And as Chris Rock once said, “What do you want, a cookie?”

Why was it abuse when you were beaten?

You keep asking this question, and you’ve been given the answer. You can’t keep asking it because you don’t like the answer.

So why do you keep using that argument that you’ve “seen worse”?

:rolleyes:

So, it’s ok then-not too often and it’s her fault she didn’t learn the “proper” responses. Stupid girl–should have cried and begged for mercy. O wait–she did.

You all should really hear yourselves. “It’s common, it’s regional, it’s Texas, it’s a leather belt, it’s infrequent, I’ve lived through worse, they do worse in other countries” etc. NONE of that is relevant, but it sure is minimizing the tragedy. And I use that word deliberately–for a parent to inflict this type of suffering on a child is a tragic failure of parenting. I don’t care if he’s Mr Rogers every other day of the week, it won’t make up for this type of behavior. Frankly, I don’t care if you’ve lived through worse-if so, god help you and please, get some therapy before having your own kids. Parents have infinite power to harm their children: emotionally, physically, spiritually and psychologically. Don’t give me–no, they don’t have “infinite” because this is illegal. It being illegal only matters if someone ELSE finds out about it and reports it to the authority. Kids have almost no rights. I have never beaten my children and yet here they all are: honor students in college and middle school, working and productive members of society. Go figure. Must be an anomaly.

I am glad I have read this thread. I knew the Dope had changed a bit (and not for the better), but I truly appreciate the exposure some here have given themselves. It’s been very illuminating to say the least. So glad that the video is not so bad for so many of you; we wouldn’t want you to uncomfortable–don’t want to know what you all consider “bad”. **Bricker’s ** software needs updating-if they can make robot puppies that at least simulate empathy, surely his software can be upgraded?
Hentor and Giraffe: thank you for the laughs. I appreciate your dry wit in this difficult thread.

I am honestly curious why else he would have cut the lights immediately before starting to beat her. That is the only thing I could guess. He didn’t want it to be apparent to the neighbors that he was belt-whipping his daughter. I guess you might mean he did it out of a general wish for privacy rather than a fear of prosecution, which is also possible. It seems like the action of someone who knows he’s about to do something he doesn’t want anyone else to see from outside.

Sorry I missed that among the walls of legalese regarding consent to B&D, etc. :slight_smile: I only scanned over some of it. I don’t know since I am obviously NAL, but in a domestic abuse case establishing a general pattern of abuse over a period of years could (should?) be germane to prosecuting any one charge, even if some of the evidence that establishes that pattern fell outside of the statute of limitations.

Is child abuse prosecuted as individual acts, or could one get round the time bar by claiming an ongoing criminal act of abuse?

According to the folks here, you should use a “section of ¼ inch plumber’s supply line”.

Does that meet with your approval, or is that along the lines of an “extension cord”? What is your yardstick for this?

on the one hand, i can understand how someone who has experienced worse would find the level of outrage disproportionate with what he saw but on the other hand..

wtf man, you seriously need to recalibrate on what you think is the norm.

God almighty. If there is one thing I dislike about this message board (and boy do I strongly dislike the following aspect) it’s that some people here are fucking terrible at not feeding trolls. Jesus fucking Christ how masochistic or obtuse do you have to be to continue to feed obvious trolls?

In some cases it’s a very educational experience for onlookers, once it stops being educational it just goes back to troll feeding.

Stop. Just fucking stop.

Dude, that’s not this place, that’s the internet.

if it is that obvious then perhaps a Mod should step in and stop it from derailing the thread.

It’s only been four days. Maybe they’re still hungover. :wink:

I can go into detail about why that’s an untenable approach, if anyone’s interested and doesn’t mind giving Hentor hives, but no – I don’t think that will work.

I think you’d have better luck getting it in as 404(b) evidence under a common plan, scheme, or motive. Even then, you have the “more prejudicial than probative” problem. If he denies the abuse entirely, you could get it in, or maybe argue some kind of res gestate approach in the alternative…

Judge Williams has been suspended by the Texas Supreme Court. The order does not give a reason for the suspension …

[QUOTE=bup]
I do believe Adams could be in trouble.
[/quote]

[QUOTE=Bricker]
I don’t.
[/quote]

Oh, who is whose bitch NOW!?

Bricker is my bitch, that’s who is whose!

Well, we don’t know that this is related.

[

](http://www.npr.org/2011/11/23/142695227/texas-supreme-court-suspends-judge-in-beating-video)

Not a shocker.

I honestly don’t know how a judge would be able to rule impartially in this case. Even if for some nutty reason they thought he was the better parent to have custody, I don’t think the public would allow it.