This won’t fly. First, performancing penance is not required to obtain absolution for your sins. If you made a sincere confession, and are truly repentant in your soul, you get absolution. If you happen to forget (or ignore) your penance, you’re still absolved.
Second, a penance that says “You must tell others your sin” is violating the seal of the confessional, just as much as if the confessor turned him in himself. This very scenario (involving murder, not child molesting) was discussed many times in various religion classes in school - a priest cannot grant conditional absolution based on turning oneself in.
All based on what I remember from 12 years of Catholic education, and in no way reflective of what I believe now BTW.
Let’s say I owned a chain of day care centers with locations throughout the US and Canada. Turns out I employ some child molesters, and each time I am made aware of one I simply relocate him (or her) to a different day care location. Eventually my conduct becomes common knowledge.
What crime(s) (if any) would I be accused of/charged with?
IANAL, but my understanding is that for pretty much any crime, aiding and abetting commission of the crime is also a crime. Ditto helping cover up the crime or pattern of criminal behavior.
For some crimes, simply knowing about them and not reporting them is a crime in and of itself. IIRC, child sexual abuse is now one of those in many U.S. jurisdictions. But that probably wasn’t true 20 years ago.
Pretty sure being a daycare operator makes you a mandatory reporter (in the US anyway). Not sure what blowing off your reporting requirement is called. But it would definitely be criminally actionable.
Aiding and abetting is exactly what can be seen in the aforementioned documentary, with Ratzinger and Mahoney knowing full well what was going on and just allowing it to continue, as well as protecting and covering up the perpetrators’ actions.
Ok, any compassion I had for you (I hate pile ons) is now gone. You know what? I bet we’re OVERLOOKING ABUSES THAT THE CHURCH HAS MADE, TOO! IOW, for every case that is reported, how many go unreported? Isn’t it something like only 1 in 4 or 5 get reported, if that? I suck at math, but even I know that this is the tip of a VERY large iceberg.
I think you must be tone deaf to the “mood” in this thread. There is no lynch mob here, just sickened and distraught people trying to make sense of a heinous thing perpetrated by an organization that does not hesitate to claim moral superiority and spiritual superiority over well, everyone else on earth. I am also disgusted by other reports of people abusing the trust and their authority over kids, but this thread is not the place for that discussion. This thread is dedicated to the Church’s perpetuation of evil for decades and their insensible (insensate?) response to criticism. Go start another thread about child molestation in other institutions if you feel strongly about it.
Linda Miller has a good article on this in this week’s Newsweek. I usually can’t stand her, but she does a good job.
I can think of a few charges (but IANAL): child endangerment; negligence; assault (I think), molestation; failure to report. I’m sure there is more and more importantly, heavier charges, but IANAL.
I will note that not a single poster since my last post has mentioned a case of abuse by a non-religious group. (One poster posited about a hypothetical secular daycare center.) Almost as if you are focusing on religion rather than child abuse.
Here you go. That’s a report that details the inadequate protections, loose background checks, and lack of reporting that led to 30 years of abuse in youth swimming programs.
USA Swimming has banned 36 coaches for life as a response to molestation charges. If the Catholic church had the conscience and good sense to do the same with abusing priests, this thread wouldn’t exist.
Have you even bother to read the title of this thread?!? It’s a frakkin’ humongous clue as to what the topic at hand is, and most of the people posting in it, except for one glaring exception, are doing their best to stay on topic.
Ah, but you missed the dishonest goal post move. First we were a mob against the RCC, but then someone posted a case about a rabbi. So, now the posts have moved and we are a mob against religion. Of course, Paul in Qatar doesn’t know jack shit about any of the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) of anyone posting in this thread, but that’s a minor inconvenience.
I’m beginning to think he’s trolling. Nobody can honestly be this painfully stupid and this evil at the same time.
I note that you have not decried the Holocaust in this thread recently. You haven’t spoken about terrorism, or murder, or manslaughter. You haven’t castigated thieves, swindlers, or frauds. Those who commit beatings or armed attacks can sleep happily without your ire. Almost as if you don’t care about any of those things.
Or, perhaps, it might be that the subject of this thread is the Catholic Church as it comes to child abuse. It would be silly to demand of you that you make plain each and every thing you stand against in a thread that is not about those things - it would be ridiculous for me to assert that, because you haven’t talked about murder, that you feel there’s no need to say anything against it. And it’s pretty mean of spirit to declare that, because people aren’t hijacking a thread, they must not really care about an issue - and a rather important issue - but rather, they just want to get their licks in. It’s incredibly offensive on your part.
I’m curious about something Paul in Qatar: when details of torture by US personnel and its use sanctioned by the then US government came to light, and a lot of people here were rightly expressing their outrage that this was allowed to happen, how did you feel?
“The issue here is torture. Not a single poster has mentioned a case of torture by a country other than America. It’s almost as if you are focusing on America rather than torture. Why do you hate America?”
THe Church’s rules now say for priests guilty of a single case of abuse, they are permanantly barred from all public ministry. That is a “lifetime ban,” adopted in 2002.
From your link, USA Swimming only adopted their policy in 2006.
So it seems that in comparison of the two, the Church acted sooner and as prudently. What am I missing?
Not to go all lawyerly on you or anything, but how does the church establish guilt? Do they have trial by a jury of peers and such, or is what the Bishop says the final word?
Is the Church following its proclaimed policies? It’s easy to have a policy on the books. Abuse such as this still happens in places were such policies are in place. Policies are only as good as the people who carry them out.
I tend to doubt that the Church is “walking the walk”, and given the stories that are coming out, I will continue to NOT give the Church the benefit of any doubt whatsoever. They must prove, via the most transparent of screening procedures, a water tight zero tolerance policy and some very public mea culpas, that they are indeed determined to put the welfare of their own future ahead of any kind of privilege or “traditional” political structure.
I also know this won’t happen. The bishops and cardinals are too far removed from the actual parishes. A sea change must occur which will make Vatican II look like a church picnic. Pope Benedict is not the man to lead this-he is very much Old Guard and Traditionalist. He was a parish priest for just a year, IMS.
As an onlooker, all I can say is that the Church needs to clean house and change its practices. For this, it needs modern, moderate leaders. Where are they?
Men like Cardinal Bernadine don’t seem to exist any longer. (and even he did not escape this issue. The young man later withdrew his accusation of molestation).