Just to throw a fact into this odd discourse, the bible does not insist on monogamy at any point, (except in the matter of the High Priest in Leviticus and a somewhat vague instruction in 1 Timothy and Titus that indicates that a bishop (epischopon) must be a man of one spouse). While monogamy has been a practice and a presumption among many people, Christianity picked it up as a rule from the Roman society in which Christianity arose while Western Judaism adopted it in the eleventh century to avoid further persecution from Christians.
How is this dishonest? It would only be dishonest if the person who they are dating thinks they WILL have a relationship with a transgender person and they know that their date thinks that but they still don’t say that they won’t.
I can relate to the dating site issue in the sense that I am a paraplegic who uses a wheelchair. While I do not reveal my disability on my profile-I have done so and find myself getting passed over 100%-I absolutely tell someone I talk to individually. I make sure to do this well before any in-person meeting and usually before we get too immersed in conversation. However, I think it’s ridiculous to expect someone to post their desire to date non-transgender people (or able-bodied people, for that matter).
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But if it comes down to one party having to make things clear up front on their profiles, it’s without question the person with the unusual, seldom-seen quality (whether that be a wheelchair user or a transgender person).
ETA: IMO, of course.
I want a person to experience at least a bit of my personality before I reveal my disability. Otherwise having knowledge of the disability come first serves as a major obstacle to any further knowledge of me being shared. I’m sure, to at least some extent, the same thing is true in the transgender online dating world.
WTF?!?!? I have no idea where you are getting your ideas from.
Or perhaps you shouldn’t be using dating apps if you are concerned about getting beat up by strangers.
Maybe I’m just too old to udnerstand.
So you think that its honest to go out with someone knowing that they almost certainly think you are one thing when you are actually not that thing?
Just throwing Trump in there doesn’t make your weak argument any stronger.
If the transgender person doesn’t disclose that they are transgender, then they are hiding a fact that 80% of people would consider a material fact. That is dishonest. I don’t want to pass a law prohibiting it but it is still dishonest.
Not indicating your aversion to dating someone that is transgender is NOT deceptive because transgenderism is very rare while aversion to transgenderism is ubiquitous. 80% plus of the population would not date a transgender person.
Please let me know what part of this you don’t understand. I wish the world were different, but its not and there is only so much you can expect the rest of the world to do to accommodate you. Having 80% of the world state something that they experience so rarely that they never even think about it just so you can date total strangers without disclosing your extremely rare situation is not reasonable.
After the ill-reasoned and irrational bullshit you’ve been spewing in this thread, it’s pretty ripe for you to complain that someone else’s argument is “weak.” Particularly given the fact that Una been kicking your ass around this thread like Bruce Lee fighting Stephen Hawking.
No, it’s not dishonest. Nobody is required to tell you any personal details of their lives just because you think you’re entitled to know about them.
Let’s be clear, here: in this specific case, what we’re expecting “the rest of the world to do to accomdate” trans people is accept that there’s a sub 1% chance that, at some point, they might go on a date with someone who used to be a different gender, and we’d like them not to be dicks about it if it happens. That’s it. That’s the entire “sacrifice” we’re asking people to make in the name of not being shitty to trans people.
But realistically, how many people out there online dating are going to think to exclude transgender people when writing their profiles? Dollars to doughnut most people never even think of it. So it is incumbent on the person in possession of the less-than-mainstream attribute to identify that attribute of themselves at some point prior to meeting in person for the first time.
Well, if women actually followed that advice there were be nearly no women of any sort on the on-line dating sites because it’s a risk any woman runs… it’s just that it’s even more of a risk for transwomen.
And should I expect the same courtesy as a wheelchair user? Should the responsibility be on the other party to state up front that they prefer able-bodied people? If yes, well in all the years I’ve been online dating and in all its various forms, I have never once, not one single time, encountered a profile that stated such a preference/aversion. If no, why not?
I think both you and the trans person would be wise to reveal your unusual feature before it is otherwise obvious to the other party, as well as before any real attachment might form. So after connecting, but before meeting makes sense for you. For a trans person who “passes”, I think that could be during or shortly after a first date at a low-touch environment, like a coffee shop.
But I am not trans, I’m just analogizing.
Of course it’s dishonest. The person thinks their date is one of the 99.4% of people who are cisgender. And a transgender woman is not cisgender. And she knows she not. And she knows her date thinks she is. But she doesn’t say anything. That’s the dishonest part.
Dude.
When I was 21 I did a lot of itinerant labor work in some boom towns in Colorado and New Mexico. I looked more or less like any other male person my age and so the folks who employed me thought of me as a man or a regular guy or however you want to put it. Which should not matter in the slightest, gender not having jack shit to do with the jobs for which I was being hired, and yet it did matter. After a day or two they’d get uncomfortable around me and decide not to keep me on. (Yeah, some of these occurrences could’ve been because they thought I was a poor worker or dumb as a box of rocks or smelled bad or a clumsy worker or a batshit insane wasted stoner or whatever, but there were enough cases where they were explicit about me being ‘not a regular kind of guy’ and asking probing questions about my guy credentials for me to see the pattern).
I could have started telling potential employers up front that I wasn’t a typical guy. Would it have resulted in far fewer of them hiring me and then letting me go a few days later? Yeah. It would have resulted in far fewer people hiring me, for sure. I suspect very few folks would have hired me, period.
Did I owe them this advance notice? Nope: it was their bullshit attitude and expectation causing the problem, not something wrong with me. If they hadn’t had a bullshit attitude about their guy employees all being ‘one of the guys’, there wouldn’t have been a problem. I show up on time, I work hard, I obey instructions, I learn fast and don’t get into arguments with coworkers and I keep my crazy thoughts to myself on a menial labor job.
Oh, you’re completely right, dating is utterly different. :dubious:
Did they expect you to be a “typical guy”? Did you know they wanted a “typical guy”? Did you know they thought you were a “typical guy” and even know you knew that fact, you still pretended to be a “typical guy”?
If none of those questions are “yes”, then yes, dating is completely different. If you answer all of them with “yes” then, yes, you were being dishonest.
When people think you are something, and you know they think that, and you know you aren’t that something, then not telling them is dishonest. Doesn’t matter what the “something” is.
Dude.
Really? So would like to point me to any of the ill-reasoning and irrational bullshit or does “anything I disagree with” pass for ill-reasoning and irrational bullshit for you?
Una has basically been flailing and presenting the notion that people who don’t say that they don’t want to date transgender folks are being deceptive. This is of course a laughable statement considering how rare transgenderism is. I understand that you want to be an “ally” but supporting stupid ideas and notions does not make you an ally, it just makes you an accomplice in stupidity. And now she tries to tie Trump into the argument which is the modern day version of Godwinization.
Of course no one is required to. Like I said, I am not proposing that we pass a law or anything. But it is CLEARLY dishonest when you know that the person you are dating probably wouldn’t want to date you if they knew you are transgender but you don’t tell them.
You are basically saying, “Hey we want to be dishonest and when eventually tell you the truth, we don’t want you to be upset that we were dishonest with you, just suck it up because it won’t happen to you that often”
It would be much easier not to be a dick if you weren’t dishonest in the first place. Dishonesty is one of those things you are allowed to get upset about.
Yeah, definitely.
After the first few iterations of this, yeah, I was well aware of the phenomenon and knew the likelihood of them having that unspoken requirement.
I didn’t “pretend”, I simply didn’t make a point of correcting them.
Horseshit.
And if I had been biologically female, I would not have owed them a corrective FYI even if I’d been well aware that they’d assumed I was a male. It’s wrong of them to care one way or the other for hiring someone for a job.
Some transgender people think it is wrong of people to care one way or the other what equipment your date has between their legs. That you should care about the person. I think most transgender people don’t hold that viewpoint, though. I think most transgender people would agree that somewhere between exchanging some initial conversations on the dating site and putting hands on each others’ tingly parts, a conversation about being transgender should take place.
You aren’t entitled to know things about people before any conversations take place.
Probably. And that’s why hiring for a job is different then dating.
And most cisgender people think it’s not wrong.
And I think most cisgender people would agree that somewhere between exchanging some initial conversations on the dating site and meeting for the first date, a conversation about being transgender should take place.
A transgender woman is a woman, full stop. If you’re into women, but won’t date a transgender woman, that’s nobody’s problem but yours. Absolutely nobody, anywhere, is required to make any extra effort to make sure you avoid the terrible, terrible fate of maybe having a cup of coffee with a trans person.
Yeah, that’s wrong. A transwoman is a woman. She’s under no obligation to tell anyone any more about herself than that.
No, that’s literally the opposite of what I’m saying, which is that there’s nothing remotely dishonest about a trans person immediately identifying themselves as trans. But you’re right about the “suck it up” part. 99% of the people you date in your life are going to be bad fits for you romantically. You said you’d dated about fifty women before you got married. Were those other 49 women dishonest for not disclosing whatever it was about themselves that caused the relationship to not work out? Were you dishonest for not disclosing whatever it was about you that made some of them not want to keep dating you? No. That’s obviously absurd. So why is it different for transpeople? Is it just because there’s not a lot of them?
I’m sorry it’s such a struggle for you to be respectful towards minorities. Maybe that’s something you should work on.