I recently attended the Detroit Auto Show as I have done every year for the past decade. In years past I have spent the most time at the Lexus, Infiniti, Range Rover(actually a Ford property) and BMW displays with only and obligatory visit to the domestic areas. This year was the first time ever that I have felt more excited to visit the “Big 3” displays. The Ford Mustang is a beautiful car, truly stunning. The F150 is the best pickup hands down(although the Nissan is cool looking). The Cadillac CTS-V was my favorite car and if I had $50k to plunk down on it I would. And Ford has another winner in the Escape Hybrid.
The car and truck of the year winners were the Ford F150 and Chrysler 300. Call it wishful thinking, but I sense the domestics are making a comeback.
FYI, here are some nice links to some of the cars above:
I personally am glad to see the domestic companies rolling out more creative and unique vehicles. Chrysler has been doing it for a few years but finally Ford and GM have stepped up. Rear-wheel drive seems to be becoming more popular too. In fact, all-around performance is growing. If you ask me, it’s the best time for cars since the late 60’s.
According to this, Asian Carmakers market share has risen to a record 34.6% up from 28.2% in 2000. While american carmakers 58.7%, a new record low. For the first time ever, Toyota has sold over 2 million cars in the US. GM and Ford plan on reducing production in the early part of this year.
German carmakers gain also.
Let’s assume that all of these cars are hits. (An incredibly dubious proposition, but I’m looking at the best possible case.) You need to ask: How many will they sell; how much will this increase market share; and how much will their aura translate over to the ordinary American cars that constitute 99% of the market? You also have to ask: how good are these cars; will their popularity last several years or just be a splash like the PT Cruiser; how well made will they be; will they last 10 years; will they exceed in trade-in value the non-US cars they’re competing against? And also: do you think all the rest of the world will stand still and not introduce even better cars of their own?
I can’t answer these questions, but all the evidence is against the American carmakers doing anything better than holding their own on their steadily declining market share. They still have enormous quality issues against all the Japanese carmakers; these high-cost, high-margin cars are competing against non-US cars that have everything that they do and more - the Chrysler 300 appears to be a competitor to the Infinity G35, but that was the car of the year two full years ago; American cars have minimal trade-in value and can’t hold up as well over, say, ten years; and the automakers’ pension and medical liabilities means they start in the hole by a thousand dollars per car against the competition so they can’t possible compete on price or features.
Other than “looks cool” what do these cars have to offer against the structural problems of the industry?
I’m biased, but “I’m a customer, too.” American cars – Chrysler aside – have had increasing quality for years. In general (there are specific exceptions), American cars have the same or better quality than Japanese cars, and overall better quality than German cars, and definitely better than non-Japanese Asian cars ((including luxury segments, based on warranty claims and not buyer satisfaction surveys), where by non-American cars I mean those manufacturers with overseas headquarters despite having manufacturing facilities here.
Also, trade-in doesn’t have to surpass other manufacturers, only equal it. A vast part of the trade-in problem are the manufacture-owned rental car companies. Market flooding has led to “high” sales but low resale values (these are lots and lots and lots of cars we’re talking about here). This problem is generally accepted in the industry, and steps are being taken to minimize this in the future.
This is the biggest perception hurting US cars sales. It’s just no longer true, and has been getting falser for about 6 years now. Please stop repeating this! Well, unless in reference to Chrysler (they do have beautiful design, but they can’t do quality for some reason).
Touché. This sucks. Despite being to the right, this almost makes me want to have nationalized health care. As far as being able to compete despite the union, well, just look at my location in my profile for the answer to that! And thanks to the wisdom of 60% of my peers on 01-September-2004, I can expect to have my own job shipped off to India just as soon as my company can figure out how to do it…
In the case of GM (sadly) nothing. In the case of Chrysler, due to their terminal quality concerns, nothing. In the case of Ford, it’s not just good looks, but utility, too. I’m liking the new Fords. I’m not a truck guy, and so my Lincoln was a compromise just to drive a Ford. I’ve always been jealous of GM cars, and now we have (will have) many, many products that leave GM wanting (disclaimer, I used to be an engineer at GM, I now work for a competitor).
I don’t have a subscription so I can’t search it online, but Consumer Reports, IIRC, does not have even one size/price category in which American cars beat Japanese cars in quality and reliability. They have been downgrading German cars in reliability for the past couple of years, but not Japanese cars.
If you have a cite that demonstrates the superior last six-year quality of Ford/GM vs. Japanese cars I’d like to see it. Individual opinions don’t count in GQ, of course.
Of course, the very concept of American versus foreign cars is becoming increasingly blurred. Ford assembles the Focus in Hermosillo, Mexico, and is investing $1 billion to expand the plant. The Toyota assembly plant in Georgetown, Kentucky, is their largest outside of Japan. Daimler and Chrysler are now DaimlerChrysler. And any car made anywhere is assembled from thousands of parts originating all over the globe.
I’m not decrying any of this – in fact, I think it’s a good thing. But much of our conception of a car as “American” or “German” or “Japanese” is just branding designed to appeal to “Made in the USA” pride or the legendary superior quality of a “Japanese” car.
I’ve been consistenly disappointed w/ Big 3’s ability to bring an economy car to market that is not a total piece of shit. Is the Focus really the best Ford can do? That car is wretched in every dimension. Honestly, Toyota isn’t getting rich selling gazillions of Tundras, so its not like the new F-150 is pulling something out from under them (AFAIK, F-150 has consistenly been the best-selling truck in the US, Toyota didn’t have a heavy-duty truck until quite recently, I don’t think Honda has one at all). They’re selling Camries by the metric asston and until Big 3 has a car to go head to head with Camry & Accord, they got nothing. If they think that Cavalier and Focus are getting that job done in the minds of consumers, they have so many more thinks coming it’s hard to even comprehend them.
Check out the Ford Five Hundred, for the money it blows the Camry to hell. It is built on the Volvo S80 platform, uses the Volvo XC90 AWD system and is every bit as safe as a Volvo. The interior is huge with suv-like capabilities such as fold down seats and high seating (they call it command seating). There is also a new CVT transmission or 6 speed auto. This car has so much more technology built in than a Camry or Accord it amazing that it can be bought for about $23 to 25k.
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase]
I don’t have a subscription so I can’t search it online, but Consumer Reports, IIRC, does not have even one size/price category in which American cars beat Japanese cars in quality and reliability. They have been downgrading German cars in reliability for the past couple of years, but not Japanese cars.
If everyone listened to Consumer Reports the entire planet would be driving Honda frickin Accords or Toyota Camrys, and who the hell wants to drive a vanilla ice cream cone. Style means nothing to them and they do not take any chances on the improved American cars. The Accord and Camry are safe bets and CR has no balls.
To add to Flurb’s comment, not only are the domestic/foreign lines being blurred by overseas production, mergers and cross-investment are also tying everything together. GM, in particular, now has controlling or at least major interest in a number of makers, including Opel, Isuzu, Fiat and Saab. Ford now runs Mazda and Jaguar, Renault and Nissan have strong cross-investments, and until recently DaimlerChrysler ran Mitsubishi.
The gap between American cars and Japanese cars has narrowed considerably, enough so that if you bought and drove most American cars you would find them to be quite reliable.
I forgot to add, Big 3 is going to have to cough up more than 3 years/30,000 to win back the hearts/minds of the US consumer. The 500 is definitely interesting but its only one tiny baby step towards curing what’s ailing in Detroit*. Honestly, why take the risk? Buy a Hyundai XG 350, maybe it’s half the car the 500 is, but you get 10 years/100,000 on the powertrain and 5 years/60,00 bumper to bumper and spend the same 24K.
Detroit should put up or shut up on its quality claims. JMHO.
*Includes but not limited to: competing internally instead of competing with the competition, horrible marketing/positioning and particularly naming, ignoring female consumers, ignoring consumers whose preference is not driven by performance/horsepower, failing to maintain sucessful brands & wasting energy trying to bring back unsuccessful ones – and last but not least, ruining a great Bob Seger song
There, I’ve met your meaningless generality with meaningless anecdotal evidence.
Now, can you meet my cite about comparative reliability with a cite showing that the gap between American and Japanese reliability has been closed for “most” cars?
My wife drives a Ford and loves it. We have had it three years and have had one repair, the rear wiper did not swipe the window. The dealership was fantastic, very prompt, free rental, follow-up survet etc. and the job was done under warranty.
I drive a Chrysler and have been pleased with it. For all the options we got a fantastic price in my opinion, such things as awd, side curtain air bags, leather, heated seats(it’s freezing where I live), chrome wheels, power liftgate and more. Similar options in a similar Japanese vehicle would have cost me a fortune.
The thing is, most people are infact driving Accords and Camrys. The Accord and the Camry are your typical car you’ll find all over the place in North America. It might be ‘vanilla’ to a car person but the market isn’t directed by car people. It’s directed by 40 something year old wives and husbands typically with kids and a house.
The market is still skewed and the big 3 are still paying for the mistakes of the past but I don’t think they should get a free reign just yet. They screwed up big and it’s their fault. Chrysler screwed up on our '92 Grand Voyager (common transmission problems) and so they paid for that by losing my parent’s consideration on a new car, plus got me into a Toyota Matrix (it’s twin, the GM Vibe is the exact same car but resales for thousands less).
And getting back to the OP. A local paper has an article over Ford having to cut in half the production of the Freestar (their flagship mini-van) in their Oakville Ontario plant. Looks like Ford at least isn’t doing that well.
Sorry, that article is about initial quality control, not about long-term reliability. They may be correlated, but nothing in that article says that.
However, the article does say:
This is not a good sign of long-term reliability or an upswing in the domestic market. If not a single domestic family car is a possible repeat buy where will future market share come from?
Ford is hurting with the Freestar, it offers nothing new or exciting and they are paying for it. Ford is actually doing quite well with many of its new vehicles. The Five Hundred is a fantastic family sedan with an incredible amount of technology built in for a very reasonable price(http://www.automedia.com/autoReviews/2005/ford/500/rts20041101fh.asp?affid=)
The new Mustang GT is so hot that they are getting full sticker price or more. The Freestyle is doing quite well giving users a car-like ride with suv and/or minivan-like utility. The F150 won truck of the year and the GT is almost impossible to get even if you did have the $150k to buy it. The Escape Hybrid is the first suv hybrid on the market and I’ve heard from journalists that it is a winner. The Freestar is a dud, but overall Ford is doing quite well. Check out reviews on all the vehicles I mentioned on the homepage of http://www.automedia.com
