I did a lot of things the opposite, we had all cable channels including the movie ones, I gave them lots of stuff and generous allowances. I taught them I would always be there to bail them out of trouble and kept them as far away from churches as I could.
All three are doing well, have great jobs, nice houses and two are married raising their own families. I agree about the example one sets, just not sure what message needs to be sent.
My opinions are supported by the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia and State Health Department figures, MN.
The overdose rates are somewhat disguised at the CDC because they are registered under poisonings. They doubled from the Nineties to Two-thousand and I believe they have nearly doubled again.
Certainly you are aware of the US military’s concern about the increasing rate of depression and suicide and their massive campaign to assist. Soldiers who had hoped for assistance with their education were appalled and angry when they discovered enlistment in the Guard may obligate them to fight a war.
Diabetes from overweight has become nationally endemic with its attending job loss and threat to life.
A simple reading of local obituaries indicates an increasing number of people dying in their thirties and forties here locally. I suspect a number of the cancer cases are related to our industrialization efforts.
The murder rates are steadily rising (with occasional dips) in the urban areas of our state.
Our detoxes, jails, emergency rooms and mental institutions are packed. Ask any social worker, law enforcement officer or doctor.
Schools are postponed for fog (!) and sub-zero temperatures. Sometimes all education is posponed if a student should die. As if people aren’t supposed to deal with daily life while they grieve.
What am I not seeing about the strength of our population?
Am I saying we are losers? Of course not. Am I saying we have some serious issues to face that weren’t as prevelant fifty years ago? Yes.
This is an enormous assumption and it’s not based on very much. It’s true that being overweight is associated with other health problems, but I’m not willing to take your reading of obits in the local paper as evidence of anything.
Nationally, violent crime has been going down for a long time.
Jails are packed because people are being thrown in jail (with longer sentences) unnecessarily. If detoxes (or institutions) are packed, couldn’t that also indicate more people are seeking help?
He linked to the CDC, which does not support your opinion. Of course, to determine if suicide rates have doubled we would have to know between what two dates you’re saying they doubled.
Here is another from the CDC showing by year that they have actually slightly dropped since 1981.
http://205.207.175.93/HDI/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=166
Seeing how wrong you are about suicide rates, I think we deserve a cite showing numbers that actually back up this claim.
The violent crime rate in the USA has dropped from 666.9 in 1989 to 454.5 in 2008. The murder rate went from 9.8 in 1991 to 5.4 in 2008. From the late 1970s to the mid 1990s had quite higher murder rates than the past 10 years.
Have you ever lived anywhere with sub-zero temperatures? There is a very good reason schools are canceled when the temp drops too low and it has nothing to do with school adminisdtrators thinking students shouldn’t have to deal with daily life.
It has to do with school buses that won’t start, teachers that are snowed in at their homes and wouldn’t be able to get to school in a reasonable amount of time and not forcing students to wait for a bus or walk to school in temperatures that are not safe and/or manuever around snow that is often up to their necks.
If it’s something like the tule fogs that cause 100±car pileups on freeways, I would hope they would cancel school. The kids would be endangered if they were driven in school buses or their parents’ vehicles in those conditions.
Did you try to get around in the snow that the eastern US had this winter? I did. It’s harder than you think to get around in 18 inches of snow, especially when the streets are not plowed.
Driving in unsafe conditions is not “tough” or “manly”, it is stupid.
Many companies offer bereavement leave to employees. Why should students be required to go to school in a situation where an adult would be given time off work?
What’s this “tree-hugging” you’re going on about? I thought “tree-hugging” was obnoxious right-wing bullshit for environmentalism.
What’s that go to do with standing up for yourself or coping with disappointment, etc?
You say this as though the terms contradict. In my experience, the former imply the latter.
It covers not just environmentalism, but also touchy-feely new-age feel good bullshit, too.
Nothing, like I said. I was simply responding to the person who said it was good people were becoming more touchy-feely, a point on which I disagree.
Again you are labeling tree-huggers as a species with one defining characteristic. Do you really think such a large group would not have a militant faction?
You’re making up your own definition for the word. Which is fine, I guess, as long as you don’t expect anybody else to understand it. A tree-hugger is someone who is overly concerned about the environment. New Age is about non-Christian spiritual beliefs, many of which are poorly understood by the hippie type who is spouting them. Touchy-feely just means too concerned with people’s feelings at the expense of their skills or the truth. These things have almost nothing in common except that they are conservative stereotypes of liberal views Sometimes they’re amusing, but usually they’re inaccurate. And they really don’t have anything to do with warmaking either.
There are people who commit acts of terrorism in the name of the environment. The Unabomber was one of them. Being an environmentalist doesn’t preclude violence.
Okey Dokey. I just noticed that I’d posted in Great Debates. Oopsy. I’m entirely too lazy these days to do a lot of research to back up my facts. Much of it can be Googled. Then you have to be careful of who’s ox is being gored, of course.
But I have spoken from my own factual knowledge and six decades of observation. And I’m comfortable with that. I suspect that younger people find it easier to be optimistic since they have less to compare with the present than people who are older.
From what I am seeing I am predicting that we will see obesity, violence, mental illness and drug use continue to rise. The level of these things that some of you see as commonplace are extreme in comparison to what we were once accustomed to.
I’m still shaking my head and wondering what happened to healthy feminism and healthy sexual attitudes and behavior that my generation fought so fiercely for.
But I am obviously in the wrong forum for opinion, so please accept my apology and I will be willing to discuss this further in a forum where the burden of proof isn’t so stringent.
Makes note to pay attention
But they’re not rising. You just flat-out ignored the information people have posted in response to this claim. Obesity and overweight-ness are up in recent years, there’s no evidence those other things are, and violent crime has been declining for a long time now.
The role of older person speaking from personal experience in defiance of the facts about just how bad things are these days is already painfully taken on the boards.
You claim factual knowledge and also acknowledge that you’re too lazy to look things up. These things really don’t go well together.
Finally, your six decades of observation aren’t very helpful as regards actual trends in societal issues. Perhaps the people around you are becoming more mentally ill, increasing in their substance use and more violent, but that may just be due to factors present among the people who hang out around you rather than being representative of the population as a whole.
Many of the places Americans go now are much more like America than they used to be. And many of the Americans who go there still try to make them more “American” still; that is, they expect the things they find comfortable at home to be available in the same way.
I would not say that the average American views debt as much of a “risk” at all. Many of us, apparently, feel no particular obligation to pay the debts we have incurred for ourselves.
The Peace Corps is not exactly a typical American experience, you know. You may know a number of adventurous, optimistic young women, but on a national level I’m not sure they are “legion.”
Also, my own experience of Peace Corps (and similar) emissaries from America to the “developing world” is that they often carry far more cultural baggage with them than they think.
Now this part could have been written at quite a number of points in our past. Maybe not the “accepting” part, but certainly the rest of it. To the extent that there’s truth here (there is some), I don’t think there’s been that much change.
[quote=“Whambulance, post:1, topic:534536”]
I’ve been reading the forums here for 6 or 8 years and have rarely posted but my buddies and I got into a heated debate a few nights ago that I’d like your opinions on.
The overall theme was that here in the U.S., really since WWII, there has been a general movement of the people toward being … well, wussies.
There is such a stark contrast to how our parents and grand parents were raised and the majority of differences I can find as to how we turned out have them fairing far better in work ethic, family and personal responsibility.
Some recent examples in the media:
snip
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The list is endless.
QUOTE]
Hurt feelings. Oh, dear. I have heard enough of that lately.
I’ve seen college students writing about how D and F grades hurt their feelings, how women should not have abortions because it will hurt the child’s feelings (:dubious:); my 19-year-old niece cannot handle the slightest bit of adversity, and a single word of criticism or disapproval will make her sulk for hours.
Oh, and to top it off: A friend of 23 years has just cut me out of her life completely because, as she told a mutual friend, I had “hurt her feelings.” Not only do I have no clue what she means (she never said anything to me and I do not read minds), but this is one of her favorite phrases anyway: “So and so hurt my feelings. Such and such (usually at work) said something mean to me on the phone and made me feel bad/drove me to tears/made me cry.”
She did something similar last year to another ex-friend because said friend did not properly acknowledge her birthday. She said to me, “There’s going to be PAYBACK! I’m not going to acknowledge HER birthday later this year. I know it’s petty, but that’s how I feel.”
I should mention that she is 46 years old (chronologically, though certainly not emotionally).
Okay, I realize this is all opinion here, but I agree with the OP to some extent. Certainly not about the work ethic thing, because Americans work longer hours now than they have in recent generations. (Not necessarily because they want to, but because they have to, since wages are stagnating and women are required/expected to work as well.)
Also, the comment about how things used to be safer is patently false.
Ok, but one thing we DO know about people today is that we are more narcissistic. Except, that doesn’t really fit in with the idea that kids today are wusses, because narcissism and high self-esteem has been linked to aggressive behavior.
(My husband worked in the aggression lab at University of Michigan and his former supervisor is one of the authors of this paper. The abstract doesn’t make it clear, but these findings were based on experimental controlled studies. And this is one of like 30 different published peer-reviewed studies on aggression done at said lab in which factors such as violence in the media, self-esteem, and narcissism were all examined as possible factors of youth aggression.)
Basically your analysis – that a lot of kids can’t handle criticism or failure – is borne out by the scientific literature, but your stated result – that this makes kids wusses – isn’t so accurate. It doesn’t make kids lazy or weak, it makes them into mean and selfish people more prone to retaliatory aggression, bullying and general assholish behavior.
That is a kind of weakness.
A psychological or character weakness, sure. But a young person who feels wronged nowadays is more likely to exact revenge than wring his hands and cry that his feelings are hurt. The revenge comes from a weakness, a sense of entitlement or a reaction to feeling shamed, but the expression of that weakness isn’t what we traditionally view as cowardly.
Like a really good example of the kind of behavior I’m talking about is the kid who posted his sister’s hook-up list to Facebook to get ‘‘even’’ with her for telling Mom and Dad he had beer.
In this kid’s mind, ruining his sister’s social life and violating her sexual privacy was an appropriate response to her ‘‘causing’’ him to get grounded by reporting that he was breaking house rules. So it’s not only that kids seek revenge, it’s that they escalate the revenge to a level way beyond appropriate rather than accept responsibility for their own actions. Note how many responses to this linkthink this is ‘‘awesome’’ and ‘‘hilarious’’ rather than cruel and disproportionate behavior.
This trend has been observed in laboratories repeatedly. In one study, kids were pitted against a computer opponent and told the opponent was a kid their own age. They were given the power to blast noises into the ears of said opponent. Kids who perceived that their opponent was cheating at the game would blast noises at higher and higher frequencies to punish the other kid for cheating them. In another Dutch study, these effects were greatly exaggerated when kids were first exposed to violent media–in fact, the kids ended up blasting noise levels they were told would cause permanent hearing damage in their opponent. In that study, they reacted aggressively not because they had been wronged, but simply because they won. Kids would make statements during the experiment like, ‘‘I know it could make him deaf, but he deserved it.’’ I have no doubt the anonymity of the opponent was a factor, which explains a lot of the internet.
Yes, violent media is almost certainly a factor in this, as is self-esteem, alienation and a number of other things. Effects are increased significantly, if, for example, the kids identify with the character in a violent video game or are playing something they believe to be realistic–so a war game, for example, would have a greater effect than a fantasy RPG. Effects are also greater on kids with ‘‘low educational ability.’’ I know from experience that this board is pretty anti-science, but FWIW, here’s a link to a number of studies authored by Bushman that were done through the aggression lab at University of Michigan. Obviously he’s not the only one doing this research, but those are the studies I’m most familiar with.
So I guess if you consider ‘‘being willing to hurt another child’’ the equivalent of being a ‘‘wussy,’’ you’ve got a point.