I’m just curious if other countries control/protect their language as vigorously as the French government. That’s to say, for instance, (correct me if I’m wrong) they only allow a certain amount of foreign language music/films to be played on the television/radio (though, dubbed films can be played on the television).
I’ve heard that Germany has some of the same policies, but I’m not sure to what extent. Also, I would presume that Japan has the same principal of protecting its culture (and therefore its language) from outside influences.
On top of that, in countries where other languages are played all the time (like Scandanavian countries) are there any groups that fight against it in the name of preserving their culture? Is there, for instance, a Swedish movement to dub movies and play only/mostly Swedish music on the radio? (that would be a shame seeing as there are so many good Scandanavian bands who sing in English).
Hardly. Nothing but cartoons for small kids are dubbed here. Apart from that, there is serious [and IMO valid] concern that English is sneaking in too much. The Swedish NPR makes an effort to play Swedish produced music, but it can be in any language of choice (quite a lot is in Spanish).
However, our brothers in Norway [paging Flodnak] are more cautious about taking on foreign words and will try to invent a Norwegian word if possible. They are fairly protectionistic in Iceland as well.
Nope. Japan loves English. You’ve never been to www.engrish.com ?
A friend of mine who speaks fluent Japanese once had an argument with a guy form Tokyo who was convicned that “pinku” (“pink”) was a native Japanese word (“momoiro” is perhaps more “peach” than “pink”, I guess).
My wife is Swedish, and both she and all her friends speak perfectly good English. This is very anecdotal, but some of her cousins speak lousy English, and they are looked down upon as being a bit uncouth.
French was once the international language of diplomacy until around 1910, from memory (and is still the language used for post - “PAR AVION”). Global English use is only a relatively recent phenomonon, attributable to American hegemony more than anything else. As the French are typically loathed to take part in that, I guess the language is seen as a bulwark against les Anglophones.
My girlfriend speaks a fair amount of japanese, and I’m always shocked to hear what sorts of words they have picked up. Labu = love, lighta = lighter, etc. Even things that really aren’t hip or necessary like miluku for “milk” (btw, does anyone know why that is? Was there not a word for milk before?)
However, most of these anglacisms (sp?) are used by the younger generations, aren’t they? It would seem to me that the older Japanese who would be less open to outide influence would try to put an end to it. You see, in the same sense, French has picked up tons of anglacisms/americanisms like “cool” and even “fresh” (I heard a song once that said something along the lines of “T’es trop fresh”), but that doesn’t mean that the people who want to control French accept it.
I have had some French people tell me that many French don’t learn/speak English because they’re bitter that everyone in the world doesn’t speak French, like back in the good old days. By no means am I suggesting that this is the normal view, but I have had different people on several seperate occassions express this belief. I think any rational person from any country can see that you have to speak the language that people speak if you want to get by. If you choose to ignore it just to spite them, you’re just shooting yourself in the foot (by which I mean to say that the French aren’t stupid or irrational, just those French).
This has remided me that during WW2 Japanese nationalism avoided foreign words, so “Amerika” (in katakana script for foreign words) was replaced by “Meikoku” (in kanji, literally, “Rice Country”. Or, looking back at that, am I getting it mixed up with Mandarin’s “Beautiful Country”? Can’t remember the kanji, its been too long!).
Milk wasn’t as commonly consumed in Japan as in ‘the West’, indeed there is the idea/myth that the Japanese think ‘we’ smell of dairy products.
France is protectionist yes, but it doesn’t work - I’m sure you’ll have noticed all the “allez, bye bye” conversation endings and the “on y go”, in the office people regularly drop “brainstorming” “forwarder” etc. etc. into conversation and even tho’ they have to play a certain proportion of Francophone music on the radio stations the Nouvelle Star hopefuls almost all choose English language songs (with soetimes painful results). It’s Quebec where people send ‘couriel’ not ‘e-mail’ and ‘faire le magasinage’ rather than ‘le shopping’.
I thought the requirement was one french song and one english song. I’ve only seen one or two episodes, but I thought (perhaps, assumed) that it was a requirement to sing one song in English.
I had no idea. Is that tradition or is it that they want to avoid anglicismes. In the case of the latter, do they have the government body responsible for regulating this sort of thing? (I’ve forgotten the French gov’t branch/law responsible for this, is it the Toubon Law?)
I remember reading that Iceland is very protective of their language, and make up new words based on old words to keep Icelandic pure. They don’t let Americanismes in.
Yup, Quebec is pretty protectionist. We also have ‘un chien chaud’ rather than ‘un hot-dog’. There’s l’Office de la langue française which makes sure French is at least twice as big on signs than any other language, for example.
Besides that, media content laws need not be language-based. For example, we have CanCon laws - a certain percentage of TV and music needs to be Canadian and not American.
Not really. Keep in mind that Japanese has 3 writing systems, one of which is used specifically for writing foreign borrowed words. In fact, one might argue that Japan has 4 writing systems, considering who common the Roman alphabet (Romanji) is used.
Icelandic does indeed use native words for new concepts, but keep in mind that almost everyone in that country speaks English, too. Mandarin Chinese might be a better example of that type of situation.
[QUOTE=gitfiddle]
I’m just curious if other countries control/protect their language as vigorously as the French government. That’s to say, for instance, (correct me if I’m wrong) they only allow a certain amount of foreign language music/films to be played on the television/radio (though, dubbed films can be played on the television). QUOTE]
It’s the French-Canadians that irk me. Most DVD’s sold in the US have to have a French soundtrack (usually called out as recorded in Quebec) in order to be sold in Quebec. We rented “Maid in Manhatten” and was shocked that a Jennifer Lopez movie sold in the US did not have a Spanish soundtrack, but did have a French one! :rolleyes:
No, although from time to time the idea is brought up by some conservative backbencher or producer of German music.
It’s true that almost all movies and TV programs are dubbed but that’s a market decision. It has always been that way and it seems impossble to change that. Subtitled movies and series exist but apart from a few niches it is economic suicide. Some of the more obscure foreign films don’t get dubbed and there are few special showings of mainstream movies in the original language. On TV the small amount subtitled content is almost completely limited to public networks. I can’t remember any subtitled programs on commercial networks, except for a few time slots allocated to independent content providers that the networks can’t control, but that’s just a minor quirk in German TV licensing law.
Another semi-related thing are our totally overrated spelling standards. Every few decades a commission of experts appointed by the German states and the other German-speaking countries issues spelling guidelines for official use, including the education system. New guidelines were created in 1876, 1901 (That’s the one where the Neandert(h)al lost the “h”,) 1944 (not implemented because of other political priorities) and 1996. As a publisher or private person you are of course free to spell as you like it, but obviously the guidelines have a strong influence on the private sector.
As pertains to France, I’ve noticed that films/documentaries in English/Spanish/German are dubbed 99% time while films in other (mostly Asian or Eastern European) languages are shown with subtitles. Does this have anything to do with the law, or is it just because these Asian movies for example don’t have a French soundtrack?
I’ve noticed that old American movies often have subtitles, which makes me think that it’s just because there isn’t a French version soundtrack to go with the film.
Although you are aware that “chien chaud” and several other “suggested” words are barely used by anyone. (Actually, is it the Office that suggested this word? I’m really not sure, I know they create words to describe new realities but I don’t know if this one is one of them.) It really depends on how nice the word is. “Chien chaud” is ugly, so people don’t use it; “courriel” as Cat Jones mentioned is a nicer word so it got heavier use; although e-mail is also very common. As for “magasiner” and “magasinage”, I’ve heard these words for as long as I can remember, so I don’t think it was due to a conscious effort not to use “shopping”. From magasin, you get to magasiner pretty easily; I actually wonder how the French got “shopping”. Do they go to “la shop”?
As for your “French twice as big on signs”, I think what the law says is that French must be the most prominent language on commercial signs (I’m pretty certain it doesn’t apply to political signs, and probably other kinds too). I don’t remember there being anything about being “twice as large”, but maybe I’m wrong. If you have a source that confirms what you said, I’d be interested.
It’s indeed odd that a movie sold in the US didn’t have a Spanish soundtrack (although it does happen quite frequently), but why would it shock or irk you to see that it has a French soundtrack? By the way, there indeed is a law here that if the French version of a movie or video game exists, it must be made available to customers when non French versions are, but from what I’ve heard it’s a law that is often ignored.
And I believe that there must be other exemptions to this law, because I often see Ottawa OCTranspo buses with unilingual English ads on their side, and these buses often cross the river to Gatineau (Quebec). I’ve never heard anything about this being a violation of the law. (On the other hand, it is quite possible though unlikely that the only Ottawa buses crossing the river are those with bilingual ads; I’ll try to check next time.)
In Quebec, are the French language laws meant to stem Americanization or meant to give a real sense of what is “Quebecois” in contrast to the rest of Canada (as it relates to the Quebec independence movement, which I know very little about, much less if the movement still exists)?
Two minor nitpicks: it’s Romaji (no n), and while katakana is used primarily for non-Chinese loan words, it is also used as a form of emphasis in writing, especially advertising.
They are meant to ensure the protection of the French language, not against “Americanization” per se but anglicization in general. To understand this well you must know that before the sixties, the francophone Quebecers, while the majority in the province, were still economically dominated by anglophones. Very often they had to speak English (which is, remember, the minority language in Quebec) while in the workplace. With the sixties there was a movement to stop the economic and cultural subjugation of francophones and recognize Quebec as a French-language nation once and for all. It is at the same time that the independence movement (which is still very much active) developed. (I could and maybe should say a lot of things about Quebec nationalism and independentism as they are movements that are quite misunderstood in the English-speaking world.)
So the language laws were developed to ensure that Quebec remain a French-language nation despite the influence of English-speaking North America (not only the United States, English Canada too). Are they still relevant today? That’s another question. I believe that Quebec will now and forever remain mostly French-speaking even if all these laws are abrogated, and it could also have the effect of giving us better press in the English world. But many people disagree. There is a movement to liberalize some of these laws, but it’s not currently very popular.
And it’s worth pointing out that not all of those katakanaed loan words are from English - some American students seem to get that impression and get stymied when they meet one that isn’t.
