Vile Orb I’ve seen you make that assertion before, then as now with no evidence to back it up. I can think of at least two examples that prove you wrong. Right off the top of my head is the anti-semetic remarks made by Farakhan, denounced by the NAACP and Jackson. Then there was Jacksons own “Himey town” (sp?) for which he himself apologized. Perhaps you’d care to cite an example.
Oops, forgot to address the OP. I haven’t read Elders book, but like many posters here. I agree that blacks and whites are probably racist to the same degree, probably increasing with age.
Hi Stuffy…how ya doing? Guess you’ve got electricity this morning. What a mess…
Why do you think predjudice increases with age? Of course I have no reference point other than personal experience and hadn’t thought of it until just now. But you know my mom who has never been the bastion of tolerance has gotten more and more vocal and vehement in her bigotry. I just chaulked it up to a sort of senility. She is also neurotic as hell and that has really gotten out of hand as she ages. Do you think that will eventually happen with all of us? Or are some of us pretty unchangable? After all I developed my political views and sensibilities back in the 60s and 70s and haven’t abandoned them yet.
Needs2know
I think that the above posts about whether or not blacks can be ‘racist’ miss the point. It all depends what the speaker means by ‘racist’; this varies between different groups. Some people use the word ‘racialist’ for one who discriminates on the basis of race, and ‘racist’ for one who does so from the position of power granted from being in the majority group or in the group that holds hegemonic power. This seems a fairly useful sociological distinction- consider slavery, racialism from master to slave would have a much greater social effect than racialism from slave to master. The former would have virtually no effect on society whereas the latter would define society; it would seem useful to have two terms: ‘racialism plus power’ and ‘racialism without power’.
The problem comes when liberals insist that blacks cannot be racist, and are understood to be saying that they cannot be racialist.
Note: if you live in Nigeria and are white and are discriminated against because of that, that is racism, i.e. racialism plus power, because the societal power base is black.
Perhaps we need two different words which do not carry so much excess historical bias.
Pjen Excellent post and suggestion.
Needs I guess I could have been a little clearer. What I meant is that older generations that would have had more first hand accounts or blatent experiences of racism, may in turn have more racist view points.
I haven’t experienced an outage myself yet, but my wife told me we had an outage while I was OOT last week… We’re expecting an outage later today though.
Well, as I’ve gotten older I’ve pretty much began to hate everbody, but then racism has nothing to do with that, more of a societal thing 
Dang it, I just was sending a long post and my PC froze. Apparently it didn’t go through and was lost. Well, let me try to make things briefer because I don’t have time for another long one.
Black commedians. Why aren’t more people pissed about the racial statements of Chris Rock etc.?
White comedians. I haven’t heard a racial joke from a white person since Laugh-in. Admittedly I don’t watch much tv so maybe I’m missing something.
Black Sports figures. Why aren’t more people pissed about the statements of Reggie White, Dennis Green, etc.?
White Sports figures. John Rocker.
Honkey. No one even cares.
The N-word. No white person can ever utter it again.
You get the point. I’m not agreeing that the blacks are more racist. I am saying that it is more socially acceptable and public.
Oh maybe because people recognize it for what it is…Humour
Don’t know if this is nessesarily true or not, let me think on it a minute.
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I beg to differ, they both received just as much negative press as did your example below.
White Sports figures. John Rocker.
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Aren’t you conviently forgetting the hundred plus years of slavery/secondclass citizenship/bigotry/lynchings/segregation that went along with it?
You may be right about it being acceptable to make fun of white men, but even your own comedians do it. George Carlin and Dennis Miller are good examples.
I second that Stuffy…very good suggestion Pjen…
Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems just a little simplistic to suggest that “black people are more bigoted than whites” and use this as some justification for bigotry in general. Just what do these statements mean and what bearing do they have on anything? So what if black people hate whites as much or more than vice versa. Last time I looked whites were the ruling class that still cling to sterotypical notions about blacks like they are all criminals, have lower IQs etc. etc. Last time I heard nobody was pulled over for “driving while white”. White people do not look back on their history and find slavery, lynchings and Jim Crow politics. But they can look back on their own history and find indentured servitude, children pressed into wars to uphold slavery, sweat shops, and judicial injustice based on their own inability to pay for it.
I do not know how this country has begun to become more and more polarized along racial lines. It scares the shit out of me. Why are we so dog eat dog and competitive now when unemployment is down, crime is down, and more people own their own homes than ever before. Who sold us this bill of goods that poor people and minorities were riding our backs slowing us down? Do you actually think it’s possible that the federal deficit was so overblown because of social programs? Funny how when we pared down the military, closed bases and slowed our spending the deficit went down. That machine must have been costing us a bundle. Of course now someone has scared us into thinking that we are unprepared, unprepared for what I don’t know. Perhaps an attack from Mars. Wonder if it’s the same people that have convinced us we need to go to war with each other over college admissions and job placement programs. Think it’s the same folks that would have us believe that if we don’t relax our environmental policies we might just be standing in the cold pretty soon? Now I’m just wondering how this way of thinking might help someone like me. Me, that might live next door to a black family. Me that has to budget for my heating bill. Or me that has to apply for government loans to get my kids into college like most of us do. Think any of these ideas actually help someone like me? Somehow I don’t think so. I’m just wondering who they do help.
Needs2know
stuffinb:
But still, it’s unacceptable for a white comedian to use racial humor.
“Black people don’t hate Jews! We hate WHITE PEOPLE! We don’t have time to dice white people up into little groups!” – Chris Rock
Can you imagine what would happen to a white comedian who said “We hate BLACK PEOPLE!”, even if it was part of the funniest joke ever?
I get your point, but then just last night I was watching Titus and the following was said by Stacy Keach’s character while referring to a custom paint job the title character had performed on his truck
“I was bound to get pulled over in this thing. I might as well have been a black guy driving a doughnut”
(I thought that was hysterical btw)
So it does happen (black comedians making fun of whites), I’m sorry if it offends you.
Maybe it has something to do with his skill level, or lack thereof, but whenever I hear about John Rocker now there is always a comment about his racism, or about how he still gets booed. But not so with Reggie or Dennis. And they were never booed for racism.
I think you’re conceding the point about the comedy, but you still seem to think that because it’s humorous it’s ok. That is a whole debate in itself, but I am fairly confident that most people would agree that racist humor is still racism. Many would say that it is racism of the worst sort because it gets repeated ad nauseun until people start believing it.
I wonder if this has anything at all to do with religion? I know that there has been a little (cough) friction between the Muslims and Jews for a while now, and that Islam among non-immigrant Americans has a disproportionally high percentage of black members. What I do not know is how well churches like the Nation of Islam get along with Jews in this country.
Ptahlis
What is also unclear is what percentage of the black population in this country is Muslim. I think it is very small. Certainly nothing that would even come close to explaining a discrepancy in the most anti-semitic category of 34% to 9%.
More likely the explanation has alot to do with the fact that many of the inner city neighborhoods in this country were at one time populated by Jews. As a result, Jews tend to have something of a presence in these neighborhoods, in the form of landlords and business owners, i.e. Greedy Rich Guys. (Some of these factors affect Asians and Arabs as well). Furthermore, in many urban areas, Jews are prominent in politics, often in competition with black politicians. Also, Jews are a recognizable ethnic group that has done alot better financially than blacks, on average. Basically it boils down to the Jews being too rich and too powerful in too much of a visible manner. (By contrast, much of the white underclass is concentrated in rural areas that have a minimal Jewish presence).
But this is all speculation (as are most of the posts to this thread). The study appears to be hard facts.
I know this will sound really clueless, but what did Rocker say anyway, have you got a cite, I know he got a lot of flak for it? As for Reggie White, I believe he meant his comments to come off as praise, albeit misguided and stereotypical. No less shameful sure, but may reflect why he wasn’t bashed as heavily. BTW, his comments can be found here Somewhere around the middle.
Well, again I’m going to sound misinformed, but isn’t the majority of his audience white? (I seem to recall someone saying that in a different post) If they find it funny, well he’ll obviously stick to the things that work. Myself I’ve never seen his show, though I’ve seen a few of his comedy routines. Though I agree with you that some will take offense.
Phlatis I think it comes from the perception comes from the “money” thing. I now that during the riots of the 60’s a lot of inner city stores were operated by Jews(at least in Detroit anyway). I haven’t been able to find statistics on how many blacks are Muslim, but believe we tend to be mostly Christian. (of course that based on my own experiences and the people I know)
I don’t think I completly agree with this statement. The word “honkey” is thought of as a joke now. Sure it’s funny in movies, TV etc., but if someone called me that or something like “cracker” on the train home from work tonight I would be very pissed about it. It depends on the context. When Jackie Chan used the “N” word in Rush Hour (I think) it was funny and cute, in any other context the character would not be anywhere near as loveable.
As far as blacks being more racist than whites, I don’t know if thats true. I know that I have never felt that I was a victim of racism, I wonder how many black people can say the same thing.
Personally, I believe all of these things (racism, sexism, etc.) are all just distractions. Whatever keeps us (the public) fighting with ourselves is just what they want us to do. Sorry if I sound like a wacky conspiracy theorist here, but the point is that black, white, Hispanic, Asian… when you get down to it - it doesn’t matter at all.
But it’s unavoidable. I don’t know about other countries, but the only thing you ever hear about in the United States is how we’re all different. But this is how the ruling party in any society works: keep the lower and middle class fighting with each other so that they can keep going to the bank. Divide and conquer - hardly a new idea, but it happens to work rather well. As soon as we learn to stop fighting with each other about something as silly as “race,” I’m sure they’ll start throwing out something else out there for us to fixate on.
Whatever keeps us busy and not paying attention to them is all they’re looking for.
stuffinb
Put anything on national TV and you’re probably going to get more white viewers than black, because only 13% or so of America is black. When I have seen clips from Chris Rock’s standup acts the live audience shown was almost all black.
I couldn’t find a transcript of what Rocker said, but it was, I admit, more blatantly racist than Reggie’s comments and also said in anger - intending to offend. He has apologized. He has said that he never really believed any of it but some people were “pushing his buttons” and he wanted to hurt them. Rocker is one of the top closers in MLB, a very elite group, and yet he is identified instead by some comments he made in frustration and anger.
Reggie, I think, said that he still believes and stands by everything he said in that meeting. His comments on homosexuals were certainly not meant as praise unless you’re talking about praise of those who discriminate against homosexuals. Other comments were less blatantly offensive. Reggie is known primarily for sacking the quarterback and second for preaching the word of God. His prejudices are only mentioned as a detail when they are specifically relevant.
JONAS said,
I rode a bus in high school when everyone but me and another guy were black. They called us “honkey”, “cracker”, “saltine”, “whitey”, and a bunch of other stuff I can’t remember. They didn’t mean it in a joking way. My white friend and I thought it was hilarious. I was never pissed. Obviously we had never associated those terms with oppression so it was just kinda funny. I guess it was hate speech but we really could have cared less. Of course we didn’t use the “N” word to retort or they would’ve beat the SH*T out of us.
B_P Very Carlin-esque and I happen to whole heartedly agree. Remembers somethng I said to my wife and freinds a couple of months back on this same subject:
" I bet you right now some fiends in Fremont (I live in Oakland, Fremont is a more affluent city donn 880) are having this exact same conversation, we’re more alike than different."
quote:
Originally posted by stuffinb
B_P Very Carlin-esque and I happen to whole heartedly agree.
Yes, isn’t Carlin amazing? He is right on the money on just about everything. But it’s true. I mean, to be fighting over something as silly as “what we look like” is very funny to me. But we can’t help it. It’s not our fault. It’s been pounded into us by the “powers that be” from the begining. But the sooner all of us realize that this is, in fact, a pointless argument, then maybe we can all start loving, helping and healing each other a lot more.
Human beings are beautiful creatures - too bad they don’t know it.