Are Christians the biggest hypocrites?

Great Debates
1

It seems like amoung the major religions, Christianity seems to have the most # of those who “talk the Talk, but don’t walk the Walk”. Oh, don’t get me wrong, I am sure there are some Jews who keep Kosher, but “covet” like crazy, and we all know about the Muslims who hate all Christians & Jews despite the fact we are all “people of the Book”. But those “pro-lifers” who condemn abortion as “murder”, but think it is OK to kill a Doctor or bomb a clinic are endemic to the Christian Faith, it seems. Or those those who would get drunk and beat up a gay guy.

Maybe it is because Christians have few Laws to follow; there are no dietary Laws, for example (except that against consuming blood, and that has been pretty much ignored for the last 1500 years, at least), so it is easy to SAY you are a Christian.

Maybe it is because- although the Laws are few, the Moral Commandments (ie. love thy Brother as thyself, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, turn the other cheek, etc) are so hard.

Or maybe I am wrong, and the other major religions have just as many who follow the outward trappings, but do not follow the True Teachings. I’d like to hear from our NON Christians, too.

2

Hope this doesn’t become my religion/non-religion is better than your religion .

Oh , and as to the OP see the sig. :slight_smile:

3

How many people have you talked to that have bombed abortion clinics or gotten drunk and beaten up gay guys?

4

Well, Asmodean, I for one know nobody who has done either. I don’t even know anybody who knows anybody (AFAIK) that has done either. But don’t let that fool you! All Christians are out there doing that!

5

Daniel you are making very blanket statements about all religions. I’m not comfortable with that. Can you list some examples that prove those kinds of people are the majority as opposed to the radical minority?

6

I don’t think Daniel was suggesting that such Christians are the majority at all. My understanding is that he was claiming that there are a greater proportion of “bad” Christians than there are hypocritical followers of other religions.

My own take on this is as follows:

There are no statistics to prove either way that this is the case. Even if there were, I would have great difficulty with definitions. Is the mass-murderer who claims to be Christian actually counted as Christian, or as, well, a nut who claims to be Christian?

My WAG is that there are three main factors which might also lead you to believe that there are a greater proportion of hypocritical Christians.

Firstly, the majority of the abortion clinic-bombing, womanising, thieving Christians we hear about are in Western liberal democracies (the US, UK, Europe etc), these being countries where the government is ostensibly religiously neutral. Christianity seems (remember this is a WAG) to be more prevalent in states who place a high value on personal freedom. We have abortion clinics, the death penalty (in the US), and many other religiously contentious freedoms - because the state shies away from moral pronouncements, generally. It would, in my opinion, be harder to be a religious hypocrite in a semi-theocractic state that enforces “religious” laws rigidly (eg. the Taliban regime in Afghanistan).

Secondly, we pretty much all live in modern Western states with mass communications. Thus, we hear more about religious hypocrites in our own, largely Christian, countries. Local news sells more than international news.

Lastly, and similarly, we generally live lives with more disposable income. It’s easy to be pious when you’re living on the breadline, when religion is the only hope you have to look to. When you’re surrounded by attainable wealth, cars, women, drugs, then greed and corruption is that much easier.

Okay, I have no proof for any of the above, but I reckon that number two is a pretty strong thought.

7

Good points, Mattk.
I wasn’t asking for statistics. But when someone says “Christians are more hypocritical” I want to know what exactly MAKES them that way, not just that they are. And you sir, succeeded to providing evidence quite sufficently (IMHO of course)

8

I think Matt makes some excellent points. And, No, Pepper, I am not saying MOST Christians are like that, just MAYBE a larger % of them.

The Western freedom thing sounds good, too, matt.

How about our Jewish brethren? CMK, Sdim, zev, etc? Lots of hypocrites or comparatively few? 'Fess up now, this is the SDMB. If so, why?

9

In the United States, I would guess that the majority of people (those who claim to be religious, anyway) are Christians or claim to be such (for some folks, the fact that their parents made them go to church when they were kids makes them one – as if it’s an inherited characteristic). If all religious groups have a like percentage of nutcases/hypocrites (say, 5%, for the sake of the argument – I’d guess more, from what I’ve seen) then Christians would naturally have the largest number.

~~Baloo

10

Well, Peppy, everyone, I think that Christianity has a greater potential for hypocrisy. I believe (but I’m not sure) that it’s the biggest religion in the world (if it’s not, feel free to correct me). But aside from that, it’s also got hundreds, if not thousands, of different sects of Christianity, which results in cross-Christian scuffles. In addition, it’s the foremost religion here in the “free world”, so that if some nutcase Christian wants to go start his own branch, he could. For Islam (probably the second biggest religion? Again, I’m not sure), there’s less tolerance of somebody going to start his own branch.

And, finally, again since Christianity is foremost in America, outspoken preachers get more media coverage, and therefore more money, so there’s this bid among evangelical types to outpreach each other.

11

Spoofe: well, you have got a point, but there are 2 major & many minor branches of the Muslim faith, and 3 major and many minor branches of Judiaism. The new President of Syria is a member of a very small sect, and there are the Lubavichers…

And, Baloo, of course, if there are more Christians there are more Christian hypocrites, but is there a larger % of them? Maybe it only seems that way to us here in the USA.

12

Daniel your problem is your statements have I am saying something really stupid written all over them:) Can you say you have never done something hypocritical in your life? Everyones been a hypocrite at one time or another; your just using the strongest examples only. So id say about 100% of the world are hypocrites.

13

??? Forgot the “”"? :smiley:

But, yes, everyone is a hypocrite sometimes, but here I am talking about those that openly & loudly profess to a religion’s value sytem, but DO otherwise.

14

I would suspect that hypocrisy has little to do with religion. If you mean to suggest that Jewish individuals (for instance) are less likely to break their commandments than Christians, I think that is ludicrous. I think you are using the stereotypic image of the nice Jewish boy with his yamaka (I know I spelled this wrong). I think Jewish people are subject to all the good/bad qualities of everyone else (look at Seinfeld). Same is true for all religions including atheists.

Atheists are often a good example (again not to claim they are all hypocrits either). How often have you heard an atheist say, “You are all misguided for saying you know what happens after death. CLEARLY nothing happens after death.”

Clearly? And where did they acheive such clarity unless they, themselves have been dead, which usually makes it difficult to post messages on the Straight Dope Board.

Anyway, to stay on topic, I don’t think your premise is particularly valid. Look at how many religious espouce peace, yet engage in wild violence (Hinduism, Buddism, Islam, and yes, Christianity.)

Ghandi is a bit of a hypocrit himself. Though he as an individual was pacifist, exactly HOW well do Hindus get along with their Islamic Pakistani neighbors again?

15

Are you familiar with Larouchefoucauld’s nostrum that “hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue”?

To put it another way, the more idealistic you are, the more hypocritical you’re going to appear if you fail to live up to your own standards.

If I talk about the virtue of generosity, and encourage everyone to give generously to the poor, I’ll look like a hypocrite if it’s revealed that I give very little money to charity. On the other hand an Ivan Boesky or DOnald TRump will NEVER look like a hypocrite in that regard, since neither ever pretended to be anything but a greedy moneygrubber.

If I talk about how wonderful the nuclear family is, I’m going to look like a hypocrite and a fraud if it turns out that I’m sneaking into porno theaters or massage parlors. On the other hand, Bob Guccione and Larry Flynt will NEVER be accused of hypocrisy, since neither ever claimed to have any morals.

If I preach the benefits of forgiveness and compassion, I’ll look like a slimy hypocrite if it turns out I’ve slapped my wife around. On the other hand, Charles Manson and TEd Bundy can never be accused of hypocrisy, since neither ever posed as kind, loving, gentle people.

So… the answer is, the people with the highest ideals will always run the greatest risk of hypocrisy. Scumballs with no ideals will never be guilty of hypocrisy.

16

Well, when ya put it that way, I guess I’d rather be a hypocrite! :smiley:

~~Baloo

17

I’m with Baloo; I think it’s mostly that here in the US we notice hypocrisy in Christians because there are just so many of them. There also seems to be a certain personality type that uses religion or philosphies to excuse being a total asshole. Certainly, the few genuine bastards I’ve met have been devout Christians, but I suspect it’s just that they’re jerks who use their believed inside track with God to convince themselves that their actions are OK. I do see a potential for abuse in Christianity that is not in Judaism; Judaism emphasizes works, and many of the mitzvot are “don’t be a jerk, help your fellow man” sort of things. A Christian is supposed to good, but the only thing that really counts is faith (as a general rule). Still, I suspect if we lived in Isreal we might be railing about the hypocrisy of some Jews.

18

“Are Christians the biggest hypocrites?”

I’d say No, just the best publicized. :slight_smile: Right behind Congressmen and Politicans of all stripes.

Christians are bigger hypocrites becase the standards one has to live up to are tough, and everyone is waiting for someone to fall so they can pounce on them. Recall when people/the news media seem fixated on whatever scandal of the moment Clinton got into? We hold the office to high standards and Clinton failed. Same idea, IMO.

19

I am willing to be conviced that- as “St 0” put it “just the most publicized” hypocrites are Christians. But I am not sure. I want more input and thought, folks, plus more from NON-Christians.

Perhaps it is, as Gaudere said, just that some of the biggest assholes I have run into claim to be Christians. Maybe this is because I live in a predominately Christian county. Other countries out there- what do you think?

20

Avalongod said:

I’ve never heard it. Anybody else? I’ve certainly never heard anybody say it that way. You emphasize the “CLEARLY” and then go on to point out the flaws with using such a term. You’re right. But it was your made-up statement that you’re criticizing! :slight_smile:

In terms of the general discussion, I think everybody has the potential to be hypocritical. Do I notice it more in Christians than others? Yes. But then, there are more Christians from which to get a sample.

That said, I have noticed it in mostly the Bible thumper breed of Christian. Indeed, I recently reviewed a book that discusses many such hypocrisies in the religious right’s leadership: http://www.sj-r.com/news/00/04/30/t.htm There are numerous examples of these people committing sins such as lying and advocating stealing and the like.

And I will add that while I know quite a number of Jewish people, I haven’t seen the same types of hypocrisy I’ve seen in some Christians I know. I think this may be due to Judaism not being an evangelical type of religion, while Christianity often is. Thus, while I have debating CMKeller (for example) about creationism, I have never, to my memory, seen him lie about evolution (or anything else, for that matter). A number of Christian creationists (not by any means all, but a fair percentage) that I have debated over the years, including on this message board, have indeed “lied for God” (my phrase). They seem to be trying to convert people, so somehow in their minds, it becomes OK to lie for a greater good. I don’t understand it, but that’s what it seems to be.

And, just to seem like I’m flip-flopping a bit, I don’t necessarily think the people who shoot abortion doctors are hypocrites. Crazy, perhaps, but not hypocrites. Think of it from their perspective for a moment if you can: Abortion doctors murder hundreds or thousands of little babies. Thus, they, in their minds, are saving lives by killing these doctors. To them it is a form of self-defense (though they are not protecting themselves, but others who are defenseless).