Are green energy companies like Viridian and Glacial really a MLM scam?

I went to Viridian’s site to look for the documents that I KNEW would be there because they are an approved energy retailer… (approved by state utility agenices, in several states… I am not saying ENDORSED, just approved to operate)

I found them in about 30 seconds. Here is the link: (corporate site, not an associates site)

http://www.viridian.com/assets/legal/TandC_Cust.html

That was the FIRST time I went to the site to look for those documents. AND they are there… The marketing plan aside, people just jump to conclusions and spout stuff that is just plain wrong in the absence of the knowledge. It’s one thing to be ignorant and want to learn more, but it is an entirely different to be ignorant and throw rocks at this which you don’t fully understand.

Now, if any one has something of an argument against Viridian it would be the guy who said his savings are not real savings… Forget the garbage spouted about the marketing plan (MLM), that plan has been proven to work, time and again, and there are many reputable companies using it in various industries. BUT, if the company says you are going to save and you aren’t saving, well, then that’s an issue. And THAT ISSUE has NOTHING to do with the marketing plan. There are a LOT of companies in the various deregulated markets (gas and electricity) with the track record of not following through with savings, and MOST of those with that record, if not ALL, are companies using traditional marketing models!

A quote, from me:
“We should all expect more of ourselves”

Thanks. I really did look, but there it is in ones and zeroes.

My advice to you would be to dial down the rhetoric a notch if you want anyone to listen to you. If you indeed have the facts in your side, you don’t need to characterize the other side as ignorant rock-throwers, you can just let your arguments do that.

Well said, point taken. I did let some of the earlier ignorant statements get my dander up. :). I don’t mean ignorant in a bad way, just apparent “definitive” statements made without knowledge of the subject matter. Though many of them were made with a harsh tone. My bad for responding in similar tone…

I stumbled upon this thread, and very surprised and disappointed on how people are very so quick to judge without really having true facts but yet they voice those opinions VERY LOUDLY… But I guess when you form an opinion on something, nothing will really convince you otherwise… so here are my two cents…

There is a huge misconception on the direct selling industry as many people are very quick to form a negative opinion about any company that operates as such and automatically categorized them as a “Pyramid Scheme” (myself included previously) and I must admit, this misconception developed because I didn’t have the knowledge about the industry and formed an opinion based on other people’s opinions and quickly dismissed any company that operates in that business mode as less than legitimate. But was it because I was just unfamiliar with that idea and turned my opinions and into facts? I have to admit, I was wrong in generalizing the entire industry and the people that work within this model as scammers due to SOME companies that worked that way. Crime is out there for every industry and business, including religious entities, but are we to make that generalization about everyone due to ONE bad apple?

Viridian is a new company and the idea of energy deregulation is still very unknown to majority of people… and as trends show its the new idea that scares people as the old and familiar is what is comfortable. And as much as people do not want to believe, but by seeing advertisements on TV somehow provides credibility for certain companies/products and dismiss the ones that either do not have funds or choose not to advertise, and that is why companies still spend millions upon millions on advertisements because it works. Some people will still buy an item that they “heard” about or from a business that is marketed in all media outlets. If energy was sold in Walmart, I bet people would not hesitate to purchase “Viridian” especially since they offer discounted rate for a higher grade product and would not hesitate and ‘try’ it out. But it’s because Viridian chose not to spend money on traditional advertisement, it is deemed “fishy” or “a scam”. Is hiring sales people that knock on doors more legit? Or is it wrong that a sales person makes a commission for selling a TV from a retail store? Why is THAT not scrutinized? Why shouldn’t Viridian pay its associates money for helping to spread the company’s mission and gain customers? Viridian does NOT make money by recruiting associates, but rather on the customers these associates bring in… and more associates means more customers. And why not give associates incentives to build teams as long as no money is paid to the associate directly and they are all selling a legit product.

And why is a fee required? My opinion on that is… in ANY business or employment whether its a self start up, or a franchise, or corporation, it all requires an initial starter “investment”. For a franchise or small business, most of the time it requires a huge sum of money just to get it going… A franchise company creates a brand and business model then allows people to purchase to create their own business; and the initial investment is usually quite large AND you have to give franchisors a ‘cut’ of your profits on a monthly basis. However as a trade-off, franchisors provides tons of trainings materials, marketing strategies, etc to help you become a successful business owner. In the corporate world, your investment is your time and schedule and rules the company sets upon you. Although you may not “pay” a fee to be hired as an employee, you are under contract to adhere by their rules and get paid the amount you agreed upon for the work you do, and you can’t come and go as you please, and that’s the trade-off for not owning your own business. Direct Selling companies offer people a chance to start their own business for a minimal amount of investment cost, and yes, there are fees you must pay, as there are admin and overhead costs that these companies must obsorb, but they also provide trainings and support just like any other companies for their employees … . This is just a matter of preference for an individual how they would like to make a living and to what degree you are willing to sacrifice.

One fact is: Viridian has been accepted to Direct Selling Organization last month, and has gone through an extensive review over a period of one year AND they adhere to the Code of Ethics established by the organizations to prevent scams such as “Pyramid Scheme”. DSA’s purpose is to protect distributors and consumers from unfair and deceptive business practices, and to be accepted in the DSA is no easy task.

Exact Quote from DSA Error 404 “DSA’s process for reviewing companies prior to becoming association members is a rigorous one. It takes at least one year for applicants to become members. During that year, DSA looks at company marketing materials, contracts, manuals, video and other items to ensure compliance with the DSA Code. Law enforcement agencies and others are contacted to determine what kind of consumer complaints and legal and regulatory actions have been lodged that might raise questions about the applicant. Periodically Unannounced visits to company meetings are conducted to help ensure printed materials and real world practices of the applicants are consistent. If there are any questions about the company or its marketing plan, or any complaints of which DSA has been made aware, the company must explain them. If they can’t explain, or won’t, their application will be deferred it will be recommended to the DSA Board of Directors that the company not be admitted to membership.”

Pyramid scheme is also addressed in their code of conduct. Error 404

I think this fact should answer many questions as to whether Viridian is a legitimate business, but it’s up to you whether you choose to purchase their products or agree with their compensation plan … That’s what’s amazing about being in this country… We have choices to choose what we buy and from where, but let’s not slander a business because you don’t agree with their business model or their product AND voice your opinion as facts…

I urge everyone to visit DSA’s website: http://www.dsa.org/ and check out the legitimate businesses that about 15 million Americans are part of and making lucrative income. In addition, to address a previous claim that there are no other energy company that operates in direct selling model, well, there is Ambit Energy, which is an extremely successful energy company in TX and have been part of the DSA for years.

There are several energy companies, marketing companies, using the direct selling model for energy.

Affordable Energy,
Ignite,
Zurvita / MX Energy
Ambit,
Viridian,
Izagg,
…and there are still more…

Why? Because it is a powerful model. It works.

I once heard someone say, “I shouldn’t have to spend money to make money.”

How you feel about that statement tells a lot about your philosophy .

What he said… :slight_smile:

This is a bogus argument. A mathematical theory expressed does not make the marketing model bunk. So, give this some thought: The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than it is in theory.

You see, the theory you express never happens. Picture this: if a baseball game is played and the first team up never gets an out, the game will NEVER end. In theory; true. In practice; it has NEVER happened.

Your reason for claiming an MLM model is bunk, is bunk. :slight_smile: It never applies itself in an MLM situation. An MLMer never finds themselves in a situation where they must say, “gee, I can’t find anyone who has not joined this business. It is now mathematically impossible for me to make money in this MLM.” The difference between theory and practice is greater in practice than it is in theory.

Just because people do not succeed at an MLM endeavor

Once again misconception is being spoken as facts. Viridian pays on customers not recruitment of associates. They will give you back your starter fee for 15 customers you help to enroll. Please know the facts before slandering a company.

(accidentally submitted last post before finishing)

Just because someone does not succeed at an MLM endeavor does not mean the marketing model is no good.

There are many reputable companies, with great products, using the model.

A few that come to mind are: Avon, Mary Kay, Arbonne, Melaleuca… good products, and some great people…

It’s pay for performance, plain and simple… some people don’t perform. Some do. Those that do, get paid well… Those that don’t, don’t get paid well.

well, there is a lot to be said about it, but time for dinner! :slight_smile: Just wanted to finish that ‘hanging sentence’ from the last post.

Whatever you say Skargo, this thread has been hijacked by Viridian associates. May be time to close this thread down before more join.

Is your reason to close down the thread simply because you don’t agree with what others are saying? and others have no right to express how they feel? And just because we don’t agree with your opinion doesn’t mean we are incorrect or have other motives. I think it’s important for facts to be spoken. Whatever reasons you have against the company sounds personal and you simply refuse to be proven wrong… therefore, i agree with you that this thread should be closed down. Many like myself use this forum as a form of research and honest feedback on a topic, not to hear false claims that have no legitimate credibility.

I just wanted to post links to a few things on Viridian to help some people understand their company and maybe answer some questions…

This link is a pdf of the terms and conditions that each associate must agree with before becoming an associate.

https://viridian.com/Viridian/Assets/VDN-termsandconditions.pdf
This link is a pdf of the policies and procedures that EACH Viridian Associate is supposed to comply with.

https://viridian.com/Viridian/Assets/VDN-polandproc.pdf

This link is a pdf that gives associates information on what NOT to do when marketing.

http://www.viridian.com/assets/marketing/marketing_donts.pdf

All of the links provided above have information regarding Viridian’s Associates and what they should or should not be doing when selling their product.

I am also providing some information regarding the sign up fees and Compensation Plan as there seems to be some confusion on those two things…

Viridian offers more than one sign up plan, you can sign up as a 1 product 1 state associate for $199 or an all products all states associate for $399. With both options you will receive a personal website which you can direct your customers to (which is $19.99 a month after the first two months and you can cancel the website any time and sign customers up simply by calling Viridians Customer Service Number if you’d rather not pay the $19.99) and you will have a $59 renewal fee every 12 months. Non-Profit associations that sign up pay a one time fee of $299 for all products all states with no website fee and no renewal fees.

If an associate signs up an associate they will receive what is called a Mentor Bonus ONLY if that associate signs up as an all states all products and ONLY if they sign up their 15 customers in 90 days. If they don’t perform you don’t get paid.

Here is an article that explains it well:

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Viridian-Energy-Compensation-Plan—Is-This-One-of-Those-Pyramids?&id=4829789

Associates that sign up at the $199 level will receive up to $150 in Fast Start Bonuses if they sign up 15 eligible customers in 90 days (5 customers a month) and Associates that sign up at the $399 level will receive $300 in Fast Start Bonuses if they sign up 15 eligible customers in 90 days (5 customers a month). You don’t receive the entire fee back just most of it and you don’t receive it if you don’t sign up customers.

Then associates receive their residual income each month when one of their customers pays their bill. If they customer doesn’t pay the associate doesn’t get paid. The amount the associate is paid is based on their “Rank” as an associate and the usage from the customer, for example if you are just an Associate and your customer uses 300-500 kwh you will receive $0.25 per customer and if your customer uses 501-1500 kwh you will receive $1.00 per customer, if you are an Executive Associate and your customer uses 300-500 kwh you will receive $0.50 per customer and if your customer uses 501-1500 kwh you will receive $2.00 per customer. It is a sliding scale based on Rank and Customer Usage.

Here is a link to the Newest compensation plan:

http://www.viridian.com/assets/marketing/ViridianCompensationPlan.pdf

The customer saves over all per year when switching to Viridian based on usage and demand of the supply. It’s not a set amount each month that they will save, it does vary, but if you analyze the rates for each bill through the year you will save it may be 5% or it may be 25%, but it’s still a savings.

Here is an article from the Atlantic City Press which has information regarding the BPU’s requirements for ANY energy Company

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/business/article_386cdf3c-276d-5db0-8375-b56f764dfdb3.html

Yes I am a Viridian Associate but I didn’t come here and post just because of that, I came her to post because I did my research on Viridian for months before I decided to become an associate and I spoke to people who were associates and customers, attended meeting after meeting, listened to conference call after conference call and saw things with my own eyes before putting my money on the line. I agree that $399 is not chump change and in this economy every penny matters and that’s why I researched before I made the decision.

Someone asked for cites regarding some of the information so here they are.

Nearly everybody that has posted in this thread signed up to the Straight Dope to specifically post in this thread, including you. You guys can play the guilt card “Don’t smear a great company with great people”, “You have something personal with this company”, “It’s a shame people are talking bad about it”. The reason I squirm at the sight of Viridian is because every single talking point that has been posted by every pro-Viridian poster is textbook MLM-speak. The same exact nouns, adjectives, debate tactics, and positivity as every MLM that has ever been created. Every cite that has been listed is either from the Viridian website or written by somebody who is most likely a Viridian associate (I’m sorry but is one Ezine article the best third-party unbiased stuff you got). Listen, I’ve been googling for months looking for something, anything, written by somebody that has nothing to gain by speaking positive about Viridian and I haven’t found it.

I take it slightly personal because I have seen first hand what happens when friends and family join an MLM. It’s cult-like. Your meetings and conference calls are emotional pep rallies with zero negativity. They pump you up with dreams of becoming rich. They have a couple guys give speeches about how much money they’ve made. This has been done exactly the same so many times over the past 50 years that it stuns me that people still fall for it. It’s like the girl that has been warned about Casanova’s charms but still falls for him. At the end of the day look at your bank account and ask yourself if I was right, you don’t have to admit it to The Straight Dope, just admit to yourself.

Wow Eman, you just know everything upon everything!! kudos to you!!! please write a book and tell everyone how wrong we all are! Your feelings are biased and no matter what anyone says, you will not open your eyes to reality. Again, Viridian is part of the Direct Selling Organization, that monitors any illegal behavior, so for you to disrespect any company that operates in that model is just wrong. Avon, Tastefully Simple, Mary Kay are all successful and legit businesses, now including Viridian. why won’t you at least recognize that? oh that’s right… even the DSA is incorrect because you say so… I’m taking offense on behalf of all hard working direct sellers and people who try to make a difference, and for you to crap all over it, is just PLAIN WRONG! PLEAS STOP BEING SO NARROW MINDED and angry because YOU perhaps were not successful in the business…it’s not for everyone! :slight_smile:

What is this i don’t even

BTW… thank you to all Viridian Associates who have displayed such professionalism and in sharing the company’s information. I’m a huge advocate to better our environment and to know that there is a company that is taking a leap in providing renewable energy is music to my ears. I’ve been a Viridian customer since it was offered in our market even before they started the direct selling operations and now to know that i can help to advocate green energy usage and to be compensated is even better news. All the doubts that I had before about the company have been repaired, and I am more confident than ever in my decision to join a team of associates that are full of integrity and a company that just wants to do good for our community. SIGN ME UP!! Please continue to post all the good that Viridian has to offer! :slight_smile:

We are supposed to believe that, after posting lengthy defenses of the company, that you still had wavering doubts about joining it? You sound just like the [del]sh[/del]person sitting next to me when a cult tried to recruit me, who sat through the same BS session as I did and at the end had a very articulate lengthy speech about how he had decided to join the cult. He definitely didn’t think it up on the spur of the moment.

I smell something, and it isn’t green.

Do you mind indicating what “cult” company you are referring to? Because you’re right, there are many dishonest companies out there. Please share some credible advice without insulting people and calling what others do BS. It’s your opinion, and I respectfully ask that you don’t insult me or anyone who does not share your believe system. I happen to be very knowledged when it comes to Direct Selling Association and some of their reputable clients, so my original post was not to defend Viridian, but to provide some facts that you and many don’t have. Just sharing… no need to get fiesty!

I’m plenty un-narrowminded. However, if I do say so myself, I have not been the victim of a scam. That is partially because my BS-meter pings whenever anyone starts being defensive and talking in vague generalities rather than making with the firm data when it’s requested. So far, that’s all I’m seeing here.

And since most MLMs aren’t legitimate business opportunities anyway, it passes the quack test.

Whatever you say Bud…lol :o