This opinion poll is being moved from Great Debates to IMHO.
I’m agreeable.
This opinion poll is being moved from Great Debates to IMHO.
I’m agreeable.
There is a huge gulf of difference between “agreeble” and “obedient”.
This is the study referred to in the OP.
Stalin sat up nights reading transcripts that said that.
Here, have some of these shamanic herbs and see if that doesn’t change your mind. 
But, to more seriously address the OP: The Milgram experiment (and others, like the Stanford prison experiment) do not say that nice people are bad. Certainly not the worst, since the experiments show nice people doing bad things only in bad situations, and mostly under coercion from a worse person.
In my mind, the only takeaway from the Milgram experiment is that we are all capable of the worst things we can imagine. The people who say “[So-and-so] is inhuman. I could never do that” are believing the best about themselves and not the truth. 70% of us believe we have above average intelligence, when that can only be true of 50% of us. 5% of us believe we’d comply with Milgram, when the truth is that 95% of us would. The truth is that we’re just not that different from each other.
Golly, I’m being chased from thread to thread.
I’ll be reading those criticisms of Milgram sometime, psych courses don’t seem to criticise it much.
Thing is, from initial reading of the aforementioned book about Milgram , is he seems to have fiddled some of his figures so the 60/40 split between shockers and non shockers isn’t reliable.
My time here was not unproductive, and the teeming masses really did have some real answers, so that’s pretty good.
I don’t think nice people are the biggest problem in the world. But I do think niceness is overemphasized as a virtue. Way too many people (especially females) grow up believing that being liked by others is more important than liking oneself or being comfortable in one’s own skin. I really wish my mother had taught me that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with telling someone “Fuck you” if that’s what they deserve to hear, instead of teaching me that I had to always be a “nice girl”. Nice girls wait for others to rescue them and then cry themselves to sleep when no one comes. Girls who know how to say “fuck you” don’t have this problem (as much).
I always remember these experiments being discussed in class at school, while most people were unsure how they would react one person was absolutely adamant that he would never ever (ever) do something as unpleasant to someone else.
He also just happened to be the biggest, meanest, most bullying jerk in the class. Not be nasty to people? He and his coterie of sniggering hangers-on made it their lifes mission to make everyone elses life as much a misery as possible.
No, he probably wouldn’t be ‘following orders’, he’d be the one giving them. For our own good of course.
Facetiously Godwining the thread, but; I couldn’t help noticing it in conjunction with the other current one in IMHO, “Ask Hitler a question or punch him in the mouth”. A quiestion to ask of said person in 1933, comes to mind: “Mr. Hitler, it is widely considered a self-evident truth that nice people are a great menace to society. Do you have plans for any programme aimed at eliminating nice people from Germany, and ultimately from Europe?”
I suppose if your thinking “nice” as in people who wont stand up for things, yes that can be a problem.
But I think in the long run a society which emphasizes “do onto others” and “do a good deed everyday” is much better off. I’m thinking those countries where people wont stand in a queue and wait their turn. Where everyone is out to steal from and hurt others. Where people use the street as a public toilet. Where when out driving nobody obeys traffic signs and traffic is basically bumper cars.
But there are other communities where a combination of civic and religious groups work together to better society. Those communities have book clubs, organize clothing drives, groups that work to help the poor, parents coach youth sports teams, where people pick up their own litter, they have volunteer fire departments, community theater, plus other civic and fine arts groups.
I like a community where one can look for a listing of different clubs and organizations where whatever hobby or interest one has, their are groups that get together for that.
[Possibly Pertinent]“What Jesus blatantly fails to appreciate is that it’s the meek who are the problem.”[/Possibly Pertinent]
I’ve just finished reading ‘The Postman’ by David Brin (never seen the movie but I’ve heard its not as bad as people say) and thats pretty much the fundemental message of the book, that however much we might like to complain and have childish fantasies about how much fun anarchy would be if modern civic society suddenly collapsed we would miss it pretty damn quick, and how something as simple as popping down to the shops for a loaf of bread is a luxury that didn’t exist until recent times and is still impossible in vast regions of the world.
That and he depicts how unpleasant a ‘might makes right’ Darwinian survival of the fittest society would be (thats the antagonist society in the book).
If the assertion ‘nice people are the problem’ is true, what’s the recommendation? We need more assholes? I think we have sufficient already.
I think of it like karate.
A person well instructed in karate will have good self esteem and be a nice person. However they are fully capable of defending themselves.
Erm, isn’t it somewhat circular to say that the people who are agreeable are the people who agree to obey the orders of other people?
People who are agreeable usually agree to what other people want. People who are agreeable don’t argue. That’s what agreeable means.
That’s not what all what agreeable means:
Low agreeableness is associated with high levels of creativity, which doesn’t come as a complete shock to me. Creativity requires boldness, obstinacy, and resistance to conformity. A society where everyone is agreeable is one where no one does anything daring or innovative. It’s my belief that every highly successful person has had to say “fuck you” at least once in their lives.
In other words, people who are agreeable are not skeptical (don’t question the surface explanation), not obstinate (aren’t stubborn/resistant to the ideas of others) and are conformist (they do what other people do).
Aren’t you really agreeing with me?
This.
And this, too.
I honestly don’t know what the OP is proposing.