Are Palestinians in Gaza a distinct ethnic group? Is pushing Palestinians out of Gaza "ethnic cleansing?"

[iiandyiiii]

The rationalizations and justifications that @Whack-a-Mole seems to be advocating strike me as exactly the same as those used by the engineers of past ethnic cleansings. They’d claim it’s not a real ethnicity, or that they’re all a threat, or that forcefully relocating an ethnic group from a specific, small area somehow isn’t ethnic cleansing (when that’s pretty much the exact definition).

Although I hadn’t heard the rationalization that because there’s plenty of Arabs elsewhere, that makes it not count. That’s a new one for the books!

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@Babale

Let me be clear about something @Whack-a-Mole. Israel will respond to this atrocity with overwhelming force. When all is said and done, there will be no Hamas as an organization.

It will cost too many lives, on all sides, but there is no other way this can end. And considering what has already happened, this is the best possible outcome. Hamas must end.

But once that happens, what will not happen is an ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.

You italicized “once that happens” there, which makes me wonder how far things would go before that happens.

You noted upthread that ‘Nazis in WW2 weren’t a handful of terrorists, they ran the whole German nation. That doesn’t mean that evicting everyone who lived in Berlin would have been justified.’ But what if the analogy isn’t to Berlin, but to Hiroshima? Is the lesson that bombing the city — civilians and all — wouldn’t have been justified after surrender, but was before?

[Riemann]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

…but to Hiroshima? Is the lesson that bombing the city — civilians and all — wouldn’t have been justified after surrender, but was before?

Why would that be a surprising view for someone to hold? Many people think it was justified to end the war. But nobody thinks that killing civilians (about 0.25% of the Japanese population) was desirable if there were any other way; and certainly nobody thinks that it would have been justified after surrender.

The circumstances in Gaza are vastly different, so the specific parallel is hardly apt. But in terms of broad moral principles, what do you expect the Israelis to do, other than eliminate the existential threat from Hamas while trying their utmost to minimize civilian casualties?

[DavidNRockies]

My $0.02 on this one is relatively straightforward. This is a textbook example of the Argument of the Beard fallacy:

Argument of the Beard

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Whack-a-Mole

rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area.

Rendering an area [Israel] ethnically homogeneous [almost entirely Jewish] by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups [Palestinians and other Arabs] from the area [Israel].

It is uncontroversial that undertaking the proposed course of events would meet the United Nations definition of ethnic cleansing: it’s a simple task to plug the specific terms into the general definition.

Depending on the specifics, it may or may not meet the definition of genocide:

Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in
whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated
to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

(emphasis added)

As others, especially @iiandyiiii, have emphasized, it is critical not to commit a fallacy of composition:

The fallacy of composition is an informal fallacy that arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole.

The tire is made of rubber; therefore the car of which the tire is a part is also made of rubber.

Hamas is a terroristic organization worth destroying; therefore the Palestinian people of which Hamas is a part is also a terroristic organization worth destroying.

The fallacy of composition is harmless in some cases. In other cases, like this one, it encourages the worst sort of human behavior.

[What_Exit]

Moderating:
I just reviewed this thread. It started out barely within the rules but then @Whack-a-Mole came back and continued to promote an Abhorrent Views. This is specifically covered by the rules.

@Ed_Zotti

Abhorrent views. If you express yourself in a way we consider to be beyond the pale of civil discussion, whether in style or substance, we will warn you to stop, specifying what it is we want you to cease doing, on penalty of losing your posting privileges. This rule applies in all forums including the Pit. This is not an attempt to suppress discussion of sensitive topics. We cannot anticipate everything we would consider abhorrent and do not maintain a list of proscribed views. Except in extreme cases we will provide the offending party with a warning before taking any further action.

Also in reading through @Whack-a-Mole’s 32 posts, there was a lot of Sealioning going on. This is a form of trolling. The sealioning started with post 40 and went on often after that.

A Warning will be issued and this thread is closed. I can’t believe I have to write this, but be careful about promoting mass murder/genocide/ethnic cleansing or finding an excuse to kick millions of people out of their home.