This works with a set of friends I go out with regularly. This week perhaps I will get the salad, but next week I might get the lobster. It eventually evens out.
This does not work in large groups of acquantainces or work colleagues, where there is less mutual admiration and there are no opportunities to true up later.
About (does the math in his head, double-checks it, shakes his head, and sighs) thirty years ago I was in a science fiction (all, right it was a Star Trek) club which met on Saturday afternoons at a local college. After the meeting a bunch of us would head over to a local pizza restaurant for dinner. Usually there’d be around ten to fifteen people, some of whom would split pizzas while others would order sandwiches, burgers, or dinners. Most of us drank Coke, but there were a few who’d order beer or other drinks. We’d be there for several hours, although some would leave earlier than the others.
Obviously, there was no way we could get separate checks, so collecting money for the meal from everyone was an interesting experience. Those who had left early, of course, had just tossed money on the table to cover what they’d eaten, and occasionally there were later accusations that they hadn’t left enough, particularly if they’d ordered a full dinner but only left $5 or $10. On several occasions the last people there would have to make up a significant shortage out of their own pocket.
Then one of the math geeks among us had an idea. He had one of those programmable HP calculators which he always carried in a hip holster, and he wrote a check-splitting program. It had most of the restaurant’s menu in a file (like what they charged for various sized pizzas, with different toppings). When people ordered, he would assign everyone a number and enter their order into his calculator. His program would take into account people splitting pizzas or appetizers, individual orders, and drinks, and would even factor in sales tax and tip (I forget what percentage he assumed). When someone was ready to leave, he would enter their number, and his calculator would spit out what they owed. Amazingly enough, it actually worked; the first time we used it, the money everyone had paid actually covered the check when it came.
Wow. I think I’m inspired.
This will always happen. I will over pay to make up for what others didn’t chip in, then for the rest of that day I am in a pissy mood because I fell taken advantage of.
I’ve ended up a few times with other people having to cover for me. Not clueless (well, maybe a bit?), just that I didn’t know the place didn’t accept credit/debit cards (cash or check only places). Since I don’t carry around anything more than change for longer than a day, and I don’t carry cash unless I KNOW I need it, I’ve had to have people ditch in. At least, because I’m eating expecting to pay on my own (until the end I realize I can’t), I always order the cheaper entrees.
In other cases though, they do say “My treat” beforehand, so even if I want to pay (and have money) they refuse.
I do feel bad and want to go to that place again at least to, if not pay the other person, at least to show that I’ll pay on my own.
I think it’s conniving. There have been times when friends have covered for me, but it was always their treat and I made sure they knew beforehand that if they really wanted us to eat at this certain place or have this certain dish that I’d have to cover them next time. I can’t imagine someone getting a steak/lobster and 5 cocktails thinking it’s fair to split the bill with someone who only had a salad and water - surely no-one can be that clueless.
My friends and I always just pay for our own meals, or, if it’s a pub lunch, one of us might get the meals and the other the next couple of rounds of drinks. We’re all on pretty tight budgets so there’s no problem with it, and a moocher just wouldn’t get away with it a second time. And again, because we’re on a budget, we sometimes just have to say (politely), Right, I’ll go and pay, could you give me that fiver for your burger?
I don’t think its an either or thing…sometimes its clueless. Sometimes its conniving. Sometimes one person can be clueless on one occation (oh, stupid, I only have a twenty! - and really mean it) and conniving on another. Sometimes its the definition of fair - splitting a check by the number of people is “fair” on some occasions and unfair in others. Some people really believe that the best off person should put in more, or that whoever did the inviting should be picking up the bill.
People who do it repeatedly are probably conniving - or idiots who can’t do math or always forget their cash card in their other pants - then forget to pay anyone back.
I remember a time years ago dining with my in-laws. Generally, each person in the party would pay for their own - considered “fair” in this group of people. The one time I felt like I was a little stretch for cash and ordered to get a small bill was the one time we decided to “split evenly.” No one was being either clueless or conniving - everyone’s circumstances had changed and no one had noticed me being extra frugal. And because I never spoke up because it wasn’t worth the conflict over it, no one knew it wasn’t “fair” to me that time.
Has anyone here ever heard of the “diner’s dilemma?” Or, when in a group where the bill is being split evenly among everyone, someone invariably chooses something more expensive because they can do so anonymously without looking like a cheapskate for paying less relative to their meal.
Anyway, in answer to the OP, I’d imagine that it’s a combination of the two. Some people just don’t know how to behave in social situations. Others forget how much they’re supposed to pay and the people getting shortchanged or too nice or too embarrassed to say something. Others know how to behave in public, but choose not to play by the rules whenever possible, especially in large groups where it’s less likely to be detected. Takes all kinds.
I have some friends who constantly screw us with a larger portion of the bill than is due us, so I’ve started having them over and taking them up on their offers to contribute something to the meal instead of meeting them out somewhere where I could get stiffed. They really don’t seem to know any better, so I don’t take it personally, but that doesn’t make me less annoyed about it.
I host a monthly group dinner for members of a local NGO. In the beginning, I had a really hard time dealing with this issue; our guest list was about evenly split between big-firm lawyers and starving nonprofit employees. The big-firm lawyers would order all sorts of appetizers, wine, dessert, the whole shebang. The poor NGO employees would order a side salad and a glass of water. The big law-firm lawyers would suggest splitting the check evenly, and you could just see the NGO employees trying not to blow blue smoke out of their ears.
These days I just tell everyone to put in enough to cover whatever they ordered, and if we come up a bit short, I just ask everyone to throw in another dollar or two (upon which one of the high-rollers will generally just offer to throw in the whole difference, and if not, most people don’t mind an extra dollar or two). It works out pretty well for the most part.
My biggest issue is going out with groups of people who drink; I hardly drink at all, and will have maybe one drink once in a while, two max. So though in principle I don’t mind chipping in an extra few bucks for a night out, I get annoyed when what I thought was my $15 entree ends up being $50 to subsidize everyone else’s appetizers, dessert, and 3 martinis each.
Is it maybe as simple as poor finances?
I went out for a few nostalgic get-togethers with a group of BBS geeks that I used to hang out with in the '80s. We used to go to Denny’s every Tuesday after $2.00 movie night, and the bill always ended up being little short – it took several tries to get anywhere near an amount that included even a modest tip.
Totally opposite effect on the return, now that we aren’t starving students anymore - everyone contributed generously more than their share, and we were consistently left with an extravagant amount left over.
Puzzled server: “That bunch of old geeks left me a fifty-dollar tip. WTF?”
Y’know, I’ve never actually encountered this problem. I’ve been out to dinner with twenty other folks, some of whom order appetizers and drinks, some of whom order the cheapest thing on the menu, and when the hat gets passed around, the total always ends up coming out right, with between a 15 and 20% tip. Maybe it’s because I mostly hang out with other physicists, all of whom can do the math: Even the true cheapskates, I think, mostly just don’t bother to do the parts of the math which aren’t in their favor: Very few people will allow themselves to know that they’re cheating the rest of the group.
And the only time that anyone ever suggests splitting the bill evenly is when it’s a a few pizzas and a couple of two-liters, and everyone helps themself from the communal stores. In a situation like that, it really isn’t worth tracking who ate how much. But when everyone is specifically ordering something, and each eating the thing they ordered? The menus list individual prices for a reason.
:dubious: I pause here fo express surprise that they never spoke to you again. Really?
It is good to know that the enlightened father of the 21st century is playing his role in help to shape the minds and personalities of his impressionable daughters.
Back to the subject at hand, I seldom encounter this problem. If anything, I find that the groups I go to restaurants or bars with at least some regularity tend to over-tip, if anything. Where it happens, I agree that it can be a combination of clueless (even wilfully clueless) and conniving with a dollop of confusion over unseparated restaurant tabs.
Is this really that common a mode of a group paying their meal in the US? I am asking because it’s virtually unheard of here in Germany - either someone pays the whole check or everyone pays his own way. When I eat in a restaurant with a group it’s on the lines of:
We’d like to pay.
Together or separately?
Separately.
What did you have?
I had a, b and c
Thirteen eighty, please.
Fifteen. (hands over money)
Thank you. (gives change)
I had two x and an y
Ten fifty, please.
Eleven fifty. (hands over money)
Thank you (gives change)
(repeat until done)
Is it the servers that would not go along with that (in the US, the acknowledged paradise of customer service?) Or is it the guests?
A lot of restaurants will not do separate checks for large groups, or will do so only they’re requested at the beginning of the meal. I can’t imagine any place where a waiter/waitress would collect payment from each person individually at the end of the meal. Smaller groups (up to, say, six) can usually get separate checks but, again, they must be requested up front.
Maybe this is a product of living in a university town(or perhaps I don’t go out to dinner with large enough groups), but the servers here are always happy to give out separate bills, so long as you tell them that so before you order anything.
I can’t imagine a place that won’t accomodate separate checks for a large group. The choice: A) Allow separate checks, or B) Lose paying customers.
I go to places with different groups and the restaurants have been super accomodating about this; we let them know in advance. They’re happy, knowing they’ll see us once or twice each month.
I’ve seen far too much conniving to mark it all up to cluelessness. I’ve actually walked in on conversations where one person was bragging to another "I only put in $5! [hand in front of nose] Hee-hee-hee…! [/hand in front of nose]
This as I dropped $20 over the full cost of my meal, drinks & 30% tip and walked out angrily just to escape from the irrate mob of co-workers, only to walk up on them on them showboating on the sidewalk outside. Brag-er clearly knew she was busted. Brag-ee did the shoulder shrug shuffle as she hadn’t high-fived her cheap-ass friend by the time they were over heard. Last time I accepted an invitation to eat out with that group… and not surprisingly they got glares & Coventry around the office for a good long while afterwards too.
Gosh, I only told one of the people that she had screwed over and out of money. [hand in front of nose] Hee-hee-hee…! [/hand in front of nose] :dubious: 
I think most of these people are willfully ignorant. If they thought about what they were doing they know they’d have to admit they’re wrong so they choose not to think about it.
Frankly I think it’s cluelessness at least as often as the more malicious choice. I have the benefit of being the undisputed Math Geek among most of my friends, and along with that comes being the Arbiter of the Check (a great responsibility, I know, but we must all bear our burdens). As with many things in life, it turns out that splitting the check is a task much better suited for Benevolent Dictatorship than for democracy - as long as you have a dictator that you can trust, and that can add one and two digit numbers and then add 25 percent to them. Anyways, at least once a meal someone will be shocked when I tell them $34 - honestly surprised. Then I’ll break it down item by item and tax and tip, and they’ll do the “Oh… that makes sense” thing.
Actually, the thing that pisses me off more than anything else when handling the check is the people who have, in order: (a) not brought any cash, (b) didn’t mention this and/or ask for separate checks before hand, and © are now being a pain in my ass when I’m trying to split things around the table because they have nothing to split. I think that’s a different thread, though . . .
When I go out to eat with friends, we usually get separate checks because most of my friends don’t have enough foresight to visit an ATM. If we have one check, the bill goes to me and I do the math. I always round everyone’s bill up, including my own, so no one can shortchange the server. Like if someone has the $5.50 burger and $3.25 beer their meal is $10. Because then they will usually add $2 for a tip, but since the bill is rounded up it’s more like a better $2.75. I also do this in the open and if we ordered a lot of stuff, item by item out loud at the table so no one gets screwed over, etc. My friends always make me double check their math when they use a credit card and need to figure a tip and add it to their bill (usually problems come when they try to make the final amount an even number) anyway, so splitting the bill is usually delegated to me. None of us have tons of money all the time so splitting the bill for what each person consumed is how we do it. When we have more money it is a bit more lax.