In looking at this thread where the OP keeps getting played by two mooching co-worker/acquaintances, the issue comes up wheter they are doing this from a calculated perspective or simply don’t know any better.
Do you know people who always wangle out of paying their fair share? Are they socially clueless, or are they conniving cheapskate who are trying to play their dinner companions?
I’d vote conniving cheapskates for the most part. I know one or two people like this and it drives me bananas. I have plenty of friends who I have no problem buying dinner for because I know at some stage they’ll get me back.
Most of the times I have witnessed that of behavior is with a large group of women. It tends to be a problem of the ages and I have had to deal with at least twice when I was the sole male at the table and half of them were bickering and breaking out the calculators. Once, I got so furious that I just opened up my wallet, threw all of my money out on the table and left as fast as possible. It was more than enough to pay for everything including the tip. The word “cunts” may have been involved a few times. I have no idea how they split the extra. I never spoke to them again.
Unfortunately, large groups of women tend to be highly unstable. That is why I completely support sex integration because it usually breaks up that tendency and I coach my young daughters away from that.
That’s interesting. I dine out with my girlfriends all the time and have never had that problem.
Usually the bigger the group, the more likely this problem is going to happen. The funny thing is that I experienced this less often in grad school than I did when I was working. I say it’s funny because I hung out with people making more than decent salaries, yet we’d always be some short when paying the bill. In grad school - the poorest point in our lives for most of us - we always ended up with extra, even after tip. I think everyone was always afraid of becoming “that person” and overcompensated for it.
I always get annoyed when a big group gets a single bill. There’s always some jerk who quietly doesn’t pay their fair share but everyone claims they did. Then one person always ends up covering the difference (and pays more than they owe). What cowards.
I actually heard a story once where a guy was at a dinner where something even worse happened. He saw someone put in a few bills and take some change back to make it his fair share. Except they deliberately took back the exact amount that they put in so it just looked like they paid. The guy who saw it didn’t say anything because he was so shocked and this was his first time being with his girlfriend’s group. Unbelievable!
Well, you know- since they started letting us do complicated things like drive and vote, we get confused sometimes, and we take it out on each other. I’ll try to spread the word amongst my gender to settle down, now.
I’m certain that’s because they were all rendered mute by the inevitable case of the vapors brought on by your overwhelming manliness.
My feeling is that if it happens once, it’s probably either cluelessness or embarrassed poverty. If it happens more than once, it’s conniving cheapskatery, and I won’t be dining with them again.
In groups where I’ve seen this happen, the identity of “that guy” tends to emerge fairly quickly, and is dealt with by
i) loss of invitation to the next gathering;
ii) intense and fairly obvious scrutiny.
Either way, this limits the longevity of the practice. Oh, and conniving, alllll the way.
Back when I was young and verey green, I worked in a small retail store… My boss would suggest going out for dinner… I amde just above minimum wage, was paying rent, school, and my own “way” in all things. I didn’t have enough left to go out for dinner 2-03 times a week.
it was always the same script:
Boss: :Lets go out for dinner after work…
Me: You know what I make - I can’t afford it!
Boss: No Porblem, my treat!
We go to a restaurant of his choice, eat a good meal and then when bill comes he suggests splitting it…
Me: I thought you said “your treat” - I told you I can not afford this… you know to the penny what I make, you write my cheques…
Boss: (Seeming shocked) You can not even pitch in a few bucks??!
Me: Nope… (explain my budget to him once again)
Boss: Well you shouldn’t have said yes…
Me: You know my budget, you said “my treat”, you invited me, and more or less insisted I come. If I “kick in” I won’t be able to pay my rent.
Boss: Shocked silence as he doles out the cash for the bill.
What was amazing was this happened 2-3 times a month…until I left for another job with a sane boss.
(I was a poor student, more or less working to pay rent, bills, tuition and very basic food costs at the time… I budgeted down to the half dollar for every two week pay period… a cup of coffee was a spree that I couldn’t afford, let alone kicking in $5-10 for my boss’s after work dining experiences
an older, wiser aqnd richer
FML
When I go out to eat, I always order according to what I’m willing to spend. I rarely get an appetizer, and I typically have a soft drink, for which refills are usually (always?) complimentary. A big spender night for me (not on a date, just ordering for myself) would be over $15. I know, within a dollar or two, what I’m spending before the food even arrives.
Most people probably aren’t that self-aware. Seinfeld did a bit on that. Something to the effect that when people go into a restaurant, they’re hungry and order like Roman emperors. After the meal, when they’ve stuffed themselves, the bill makes no sense.
He exaggerates for the humor, but I don’t think so. Did you order the buffalo wing appetizers or not? Then pay for them. Splitting a bottle of wine? It isn’t on my bill.
Separate checks is where it’s at.
The worst example of this I have ever experienced with this was at a Doper gathering. The venue had full meals inside, but the loudest members insisted that we dine on the upper patio that only served appetizers. You’d be amazed at the bill when everyone is trying to fill up on fricken appetizers. And of course some of us don’t drink at all, and some drank like fish…and of course the ones who had been downing $7 mixed drinks wanted to split the bill by the number of people there. And of course, several stealthy types had to leave early, tossed a $20 on the table (for two people!) and existed stage left.
Nope, never going to eat with a bunch of Dopers again without separate checks.
That *is * amazing. Why did you keep going?
Classic. Know what you owe, leave it (don’t forget the tip that you see fit to leave), and bail.
And if you order in to the workplace for lunch with some coworkers, please be aware that food delivery people need to be tipped, even if it’s not pizza. Last time, my salad ending up costing me fourteen dollars, and I had to go around collecting more and still ending up paying more than I should have.
When going out with people that don’t leave enough to tip, I’m always too embarrassed to leave just a little for the waiter, so I will compensate with my own money. I be sure to explain to my companions what I am doing and why, though. Sometimes they will pay me their share, and sometimes they won’t.
How about “willful cluelessness, which borders on conniving?”
I had a friend with whom I’d eat out with in a small group (six or less) fairly frequently for a few years. She would volunteer to be the “money” person at the end of a meal, and we’d often not have quite enough. Well, eventually I decided I was going to take over the job, and lo and behold, she NEVER put in enough money. She would never add the change onto her amount, would frequently ‘forget’ sodas or add-on items (if fries are a separate item from the burger, for example).
She’d then leave a minimum amount of tip (say, between 10 and 15 maybe) on the low-ball estimate of most of what she’d eaten. And she’s forgotten to add the 10% tax as well.
It was pretty ridiculous, and it happened all the time. The thing is, it was always surprising to her. I got to be pretty hard-nosed about telling her that she didn’t put in enough, and she would be baffled by it each time. I think it was really a lack of responsibility that lead her to both not bother to figure out exactly what she owed and to always pay less than whatever that might have been. I mean, we were all friends, and so we’d have to cover her ass if she came up short, but that consequence didn’t really matter.
“I’ll just put sort of the right amount of money in and it’ll all work out; even if I’m a little short, someone else will probably put in a little too much,” is probably what went through her mind, but the thing is it was her MO on every outing.
If a person throws in a little too little one night, but more another night, it’s no big deal. When it’s every time it starts to be rude to your friends.
Eventually we stopped asking her out to eat for just that reason.
Drinkers tend to be the worst offenders in my experience. I don’t drink, most of my friends and co-workers do. At lunches and dinners where everyone is ordering multiple rounds of $9 margaritas while I’m drinking water, the drinkers inevitably suggest to just split up the bill in equal amounts by the number of people at the table. When I mention that I hadn’t been drinking they just stare at me as if I’m being petty or cheap for not wanting to fund a portion of their bar bill. I’ve gotten assertive lately, I get up and have a word privately with the waiter and ask for my own bill. Seems to be a good solution.
the job paid well in a very tight job market…
fml
What I’m surprised about is that many of you seem to divide the bill precisely to what each person had - it’s no wonder it causes problems. None of my friends would dream of doing this - we always split the bill equally, regardless of what each person has. It’s quicker, easier and stops anyone looking tight fisted.
That explains why you worked there, I’m not certain it explains the repeated lunches.
SanVito, maybe if you had the salad and a soda you don’t look tight-fisted by splitting the bill evenly. If you had the filet and three drinks and expect the salad-eater to subsidize that, bet your ass you look tight-fisted.
Splitting the check equally works well if everyone orders similar amounts/prices of food and drink. IME, the people who order appetizers, several drinks and the largest steak on the menu are the ones who want to split the check equally. Meanwhile, the person who ordered a half-salad and a Coke is getting screwed. Salad guy may not look tight-fisted but sooner or later steak guy is going to be regarded as a free-loader, IMHO.