Please, please don’t take the thread title as insulting; I genuinely cannot think of a different way to phrase my topic. Up front I’ll admit to being a biased observer when in comes to American politics (favor Obama/Dems), so perhaps I’m not being fully objective in this thread. And of course I’ll concede people will naturally see an election differently depending on personal political beliefs. If you want to dismiss this for these reasons alone, fine, but I am honestly interested in what conservatives think on this topic.
I think some conservative supporters have reached a point that they are willing to construct an alternate reality that doesn’t match up with the facts on the ground; they have moved beyond merely hoping McCain will pull it out despite evidence to the contrary and have developed a whole world-view that simply assuming as dogma a short-term victory by McCain and the current conservative cause in general. Evidence:
[ul]
[li]Hugh Hewitt is shopping a book entitled “How Sarah Palin Won the Election… And Saved America.” Now, folks may counter that Gwen Ifill’s upcoming book “Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama” is just as presumptive, but her book is about changing race dynamics in American politics, not a bold prediction of Obama’s victory.[/li][li]Recent post-debate coverage on Fox News includes a viewer phone poll to answer the question “Who Won the Debate?”. Whatever your opinion on the question, similar polls by other networks have shown these debates as either a tie or pro-Obama/Biden. Fox news viewers scored this past Tuesday’s debate 86-12 in favor of McCain; there were similar numbers for last Thursday’s VP debate. I know of no similar poll that scored any debate this season with Obama winning by ~75 points.[/li][li]The whole anti-media frenzy on the left–from McCain complaining about “gotcha” journalism to supporters at a Palin rally hurling vulgar insults at cordoned-off reporters–sounds a lot like the usual “I’m not crazy, it’s everyone else who’s crazy” response from folks who’ve lost touch with reality.[/li][/ul]
My wife mentioned something the other night after the debate (and our first look at the hilarious poll on Fox News) that the right wing has spent so much time talking to each other over the past few years that they lost track of what really matters to most Americans.
I know there are plenty of diehards on the left as well, but really, I just don’t think it compares to the delusion going on right now with the redstate base. I’m interested in opinions: Are a substantial portion of right-wing supporters out of touch with reality?
Almost all of the Conservatives I know IRL think that every news source except Fox News is liberally biased and they refuse to look at them at all. They are getting every single bit of information about the outside world from Fox. Take a look at their front page andPolitics section today. That doesn’t speak to people like Huge Hewitt, who is presumably reading and listening to a variety of sources, but those people who have limited themselves to the one source do live in an alternate reality.
Edited: I want to add that my parents fall into this group. Growing up, we used to watch the nightly news every night at the dinner table and debate the different issues. Dan Rather was our nightly dinner guest, even though my dad, a lifelong Republican, hated him. We also received the Washington Post, which my parents read every day. At some point, post-retirement, my parents retreated into the world of Fox News. It is their only news source. Their outlook on life, opinions about politics, and total worldview have completely changed. It’s very sad to me.
I was just reading reader comments on a FoxNews article about the supposed Obama/Ayres connection. Of course, the amount of factual ignorance on display was stunning to say the least. Plus there were a significant number of posters who seem to think, with no trace of irony, that Obama/Democrats are evil. As in Biblically evil. As in, “Ayres is a Sith Lord, and Obama his apprentice” (direct quote) As in, Obama is trying to destroy the country.
You’re right, you get the crazies on both sides of any spectrum, but Dayum! I don’t think you could find comments on a RESPECTABLE* news site that honestly say that McCain is evil, or is actually trying to harm the country.
Yes, Fox is a respectable news site - They may have a point of view or even a bias, but they’re not off the wall nutty. Their viewers/readers on the other hand…
I run into people like this all the time. It’s not because they are stupid or don’t give weight to other opinions, it’s just that they never hear them or if they do, it’s being dismissed in a sneering tone. They spend most of Sunday at the mega-church, and Monday to Friday live in a right-wing echo chamber. Where I live, the main talk radio station has the local conservative on in the morning, then Rush Limbaugh. They then switch to sports, so the #2 station comes in with Glen Beck, the local conservative guys, then Bill O’Reilly. Then it’s home and more of the same on Fox News.
I usually run into them on the golf course on Saturday, where their chins drop to the grass when I state a liberal opinion. You can almost read their minds - “But you’re white! And play golf! Drive a nice car! Your kid is a Varsity athlete and on the National Honor Society!” Really, they just aren’t exposed to the rest of society.
I think there is a real eye-opening time coming for a subset of conservatives when they realize that they are in the minority.
Actually, I don’t think that they qualify as “respectable”; that other news organizations don’t count them as a reputable source. “Nutty” or not, they ARE dishonest, not to mention essentially the propaganda organ of the Republican Party, which knocks them off the “respectable news site” list.
I guess if I squint hard enough I could see it. …Nope. (bolding mine)
FOX is not a respectable news site because FOX is not a news site. It’s an infotainment site, just like the TV station, and it’s quite short on the info. FOX is A Current Affair on steroids, but with extra servings of ignorance.
I need a word that conveys “has a large market reach, and is seen and believed by millions of people, not all of whom are crazy nutbars” Perhaps “widely viewed” would work. “main stream” does not do it for me…
Basically, I did not want someone to jump into this thread, and offer up an example from the “United Marxist Grain-growers Weekly” that had some crazy statements about McCain being evil incarnate. I wanted to indicate that a LARGE MEDIA outlet seems to have a lot of viewers/readers that are off the wall with their negative opinions about Obama, but there do not seem to be any large media outlets with similar stuff happening regarding McCain.
It’s worse than that! It’s actually saying “Islam ist der licht” It’s a Nazi Islamic Terrorist doll! Watch for comments tying this doll into Obama somehow. They can do it on this site.
Well, news article comment logs seem to draw the crazies out of the woodwork all over. I’ve read stuff pretty much equally disconnected from reality on the left side of the spectrum in reader comments on articles in liberal opinion journals. Exhibit A:
Um…okay. Yes, some of this might be intended as hyperbole, but there’s probably some hyperbolic intent in calling Obama a “Sith Lord”, too.
Mind you, I wouldn’t attempt to argue that there aren’t some right-wingers out there losing touch with reality. I just think that the numbers of the reality-deprived of all political stripes are greater than you might think, and that the current environment of stress and dispute is making everybody a little over the top in the expression of their views.
For more interesting insight from the nuttery on the right (not representative, I believe of the right, but of a certain segmenmt of it) check out http://townhall.com
This used to be said of the Left, so I can give it considerable credence.
That said, I’ve seen it mentioned that Reagan was similarly trailing Carter at this stage (fact-check, anyone?). But McCain’s no Reagan. Palin could be, given time, but she doesn’t have time, at least this time around.
Well, the reader comment I linked to in my previous post was from The Nation, which admittedly is not a large media outlet, but is a very well-established and respected liberal journal. We’re not talking the “United Marxist Grain-growers Weekly” here.
I think you can safely assume that a percentage of the electorate is always out of touch with reality. Some of them are on the right and some of them are on the left. I think you’ve just been hearing more from those on the right wing recently because they’re getting a little panicky. If the polls swing back the other way, they’ll calm down.
What’s frustrating about this is that many people who hold utterly weird views on politics are otherwise perfectly sane, normal, nice folks.
I think many of you Liberals in your naivety are confusing “not in touch with reality” with “molding reality to achieve your end”.
The facts of the Obama/Ayres connection as I understand them are as follows:
Ayres was in some radical domestic terrorist group called the Weathermen about the time Obama was 8 years old
Ayres and Obama were both on the board of some charity
Ayres contributed $200 to Obama’s campaign
So what the Conservatives are trying to do is blow that out of proprotion so that large numbers of relatively ignorant voters who are on the fence only hear “Obama consorts with known terrorists”.
Some of your more self-righteous Conservatives will simply use it to add fuel to their fire since they have already made up their mind.
I suspect few people who actually know the facts truly believe that Obama is a terrorist.
We’ll find out on election day. Your OP assumes victory for Obama, and that is not at all a foregone conclusion, it is at best a likely conclusion (I think he’s going to win, but it will be much closer than some of you think it will be). If Obama loses I think that you can look at this OP and recognize who is and who is not out of touch with reality.
One more thing: these threads are really getting out of hand. I’ll leave it at that.
Of course in the middle of the year Bush and McCain were saying the fundamentals of the economy were strong.
McCain was worse by saying that after his health check was out that his health was as good as the economy. (Shouldn’t the right panic now?)
Molding reality can work for the right-wing for a long time, but eventually reality does catch up. Molding the “reality” to say that Obama is a terrorist (this is in the end the implication and the message) is a reckless solution, it is like Henry the 8th saying “Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?”
I call for all sensible right wingers to actively denounce the latest “molding of reality” efforts from the ones that are supposed to be the future leaders of all Americans.
I think you’re spot on about the Ayers thing, but if the OP is talking about right wing delusion in general then there’s more to it. It does appear that some on the right have gone over the deep end – there’s a desperation to their tactics as they see what a terrible candidate they have with McCain and how the election is slipping away. Just look at how someone like Sam Stone tries to spin everything and anything in such a ludicrous manner.
IMO reality will come Nov 4, whether their guy wins or not. Certainly they will hate an Obama win, but a McCain win will mean they’re stuck with a turd they know well and hate too.
I guess if I squint hard enough I could see it. …Nope. (bolding mine)