Are the feminists right in their claim of very high rape percentage?

Alas, I do not.

I’m glad my actions meet with your approval. :wink:

The point I’m trying to make is that the words “Yes, I give full legal consent for you to have sex with me” are usually not spoken during the escalation phase of sex. Body language can say it – in fact scream it – but’s what is lacking is the verbal contract. It’s in this spirit that affirmative consent doesn’t need to be given. Imagine trying to prove body language in a court of law.

“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, she was biting her lower lip! You must aquit!”

Who here (or, anywhere, actually) said you need to have a verbal contract before sex? No one is saying that; it’s a strawman! You should be certain you have enthusiastic consent. And that’s not even the legal standard; that’s the “crazy feminist” standard! It’s been pointed out that the absence of a “no” is enough to cover your ass in most places legally, and even if she does say no, the rates of reporting, prosecuting, and convicting rapes are amazingly low; you’d probably still get away with it. I don’t understand who you are arguing with or what you are trying to prove.

Again I wonder how true this still is.

A friend of mine became a Chicago cop and he said they had training specifically on how to deal with a woman who claimed to have been raped. Nowhere in his description did he mention they would ignore it. Besides, don’t police have to take a report and file it and follow-up on such things? Especially rape which is a capital offense.

I suppose I could see the police dragging their heels if the woman calls and says she was raped three weeks ago and could only bring herself to call now. One would hope they would take that seriously too but I can see where they’d find that difficult to verify.

What cops are trained to do, and the actions that an indivudual officer actually takes can be quite different. I have no doubt cops go through all sorts of sensitivity training regarding rape victims.

But even done with the upmost sensitivity in accordance with training, reporting a crime as personal and violating as a rape can be an intimidating thing to do. Rape victims generally want to get themselves physically clean, get themselves in a protected space, not be poked at. When your body is the evidence to create a case, and your body has been violated, can you blame a woman who decides the last thing she wants is a gyn exam and to answer intrusive questions?

Actually, that’s exactly the case I had in mind. From the beginning, I heard a lot of negative things about Crystal Mangum. The focus of the media seemed to be largely on her occupation as a stripper, not her identity as a college student, a mother or a veteran. The case was handled very poorly, but you can hardly claim that the alleged victim was treated with kid gloves.

Given that that report also claims that “66.4 percent of surveyed men reporting they were physically assaulted as a child by an adult caretaker” it seems they’re applying some pretty expansive definitions (i.e., defining spanking as “physical assault”); I think any figure is going to be worthless without a clear understanding of what the definitions are.

This article has some interesting information.

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_campus_rape.html

Here is an Op Ed that goes over the evidence collection process for a rape kit (assuming one is conducted upon request. It can be refused if police don’t believe a crime was committed). The author then points out that there is a back log of about 400,000 untested kits in the country.

As for cops and sensitivity training… well, I’ve only ever directly witnessed a friend trying to file an assault charge. It was discouraging, to say the least.

I was addressing Whack-a-Mole’s concern that there does not need to be positive consent. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Where did I ever say there was no need for positive consent? I said I felt consent could be granted in non-verbal ways (as well as verbal) rather clearly and I think most people agree with that.

Honestly at this point I have forgotten most of the finer points of how that played out but my residual sense of it is there was a rush to judgment of the boys and rallying behind Ms. Mangum. That there may have been some media here reporting negatively on her I am not surprised but I think she got more than her fair share of the benefit of the doubt. To my mind the DA played the role he did to pander to the community and did so to the point he got himself disbarred and jailed.

Perhaps I misinterpreted your post #51.

Or maybe I was just in an argumentative mood yesterday.

That’s really sad - both of those - but in particular the number of women going through the invasive process of having a rape kit done, and then having the kits sit untested. I see its a recent article, and I hope that it sparks some action and funding.

Rape is unfortunately associated with a stigma that leads many women to keep it a secret. Thus any statistics obtained are bound to be unreliably low, even when women are assured of the confidential nature of the data. In any case, 15-20% rates are unacceptably high already.

Note that i talk about brutal rape, not drunken sex or changing one’s mind after penetration has already taken place.

Well, brutal rape is kind of hard to define. Acquaintance rape is more common than stranger rape but do you consider it “brutal”?

I’d also think that someone who refuses to pull out after penetration has started has committed a crime.

Plus, brutal sex can occur while drunk.