Have I been raped but didn't realize it?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I am seeking input on an issue that I heard discussed on the radio this morning.

Illinois has enacted a new rape law against post-penetration rape. The law basically says (and correct me please if I’m wrong) that a man or woman, during intercourse, is being raped if he or she indicates they would prefer to stop and the other party does not. Pretty straightforward, right? Okay, I agree with this law in theory. If someone is having sex with someone else, and doesn’t want to continue, they should speak up and their partner should stop. If the partner does not stop, indicating that they’ll continue whether the other party likes it or not, I’d call that rape.

I have no problem with that. However, I do have questions about one person’s idea of rape. After the radio show people had discussed this for a while, a woman called into the show stating that ALL men are inherently rapists because all women, at some point or another during their “sexual life” had had sex when they either weren’t interested, in the mood, whatever. She indicated that this situation, even if the woman had not indicated their disinterest, is rape. She also said that, because most women experience this situation at some point, most women had been raped, but just didn’t realize it.

So, it sounds to me that, according to this lady, if I’m having sex with my SO, glance at the clock and realize I’m late to be somewhere and tell him so, but he says, “please, just a few more minutes” and I agree, I’m being raped. Or if I’m tired or just don’t feel like having sex, but have sex with my SO anyway because he’s interested and I’d like to accommodate him or feel that I would be interested as things heat up, I’m being raped because I have just been coerced into this situation.

I hope I’ve misunderstood what this woman is saying, but I don’t think I have. And I feel that this insults not only my SO, but also my intelligence. Not only is she telling me that I’m going out with a rapist, but she’s also indicating that I’m too blind to realize that every time I would rather go to sleep, but have sex with my SO anyway, I’m being raped. How is that right? What do you guys think?

2

It’s pretty much an extension of the theory that all male-female sex is rape because men have more power than women. Sauced with a bit of the stereotype that men’s libidos know no bounds and women don’t really like sex. No feminist in his or her right mind believes it.*

*IMHO, naturally.

3

I’ve got to say that I feel for the women who are actually raped these days–with all the bullshit people like that are spouting, it’s just going to cause people to doubt the true victims even more.

Just fucking sad.

4

I agree with Cher3. I think those type of attitudes also have the insidious result of mitigating the seriousness of an atrocious, violent crime.

5

My hero, Dan Savage, addressed this kind of thinking recently (scroll past the first letter): he thinks, and I agree, that it’s crap. We all have to take responsibility for expressing our own desires. It is not OK to accuse “ALL men” of rape if they continue having sex with you when you don’t really want to if you agree to it. They’re not mindreaders… at least, I don’t think they are. Any mindreading male Dopers out there wanna set me straight?

6

I guess if you define rape as intercourse at any time the woman is not horny enough to attack a gear shift then all this is true. My personal definition is forced intercourse. A person who is not in the mood, but says nothing and participates out of a feeling of obligation or desire to please their partner is demonstrating normal social skills IMHO. Everyone does things they don’t want to to please someone important in their life. As far as stopping in the middle of consensual sex, I can’t see how this can be defined as rape, unless it happens very early on, although it is distinctly rude and insensitive behavior. Once climax is imminent instincts take over and it would be very difficult to stop, as one is not entirely in control of oneself.

7

A while ago I had a thread http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184532 that talked about the idea of when does it become rape. Believe me, the woman isn’t describing rape, she is describing being not responsible for what you do. Big difference.

8

Isn’t there a point where a woman bears responsibility as to whether she’s going to participate?

It seems the time to say no is while his clothes are still on, not when he’s actually inside you, stroking away. I would submit that if you’ve let things get to that point, it’s a bit late to protest. Now, if you’ve agreed to a little petting and he’s starting to go further and you say no and he proceeds anyway, that’s rape. But to wait until actual intercourse to say, “Um, no, I really don’t want to do this,”? Sorry, it’s a bit late at that point.

Things like this just piss me off. To me, it says women bear no responsibility for their own choices and actions.

IMHO.

9

I think that rape is having sex without consent. This is for men or women.

10

This actually happened to me way back in the day. I was having sex with a woman who, after she had reached climax and about 5 seconds before I did, told me to “Stop, stop, I don’t want to do this anymore.”

I stopped.

It was damn hard, BTW, but I stopped. Needless to say, I never saw this woman again, but if she had spoken up 5 seconds later as I was climaxing, from what I can see, the woman quoted in the OP would have me labeled a rapist. I think she’s wrong.

11

How long between her climax and yours? Is it possible she was getting sore?

12

I think if someone asks you to stop doing something you’re doing, and you continue to do it, then you’re guilty of something. I don’t know if it’s rape or not, but it isn’t right. It’s impolite to agree to sex and then change your mind in the middle of it, but it’s just plain wrong to continue doing something when someone has told you to stop.

And I don’t believe the bit about “instincts” either. If you’re in a woman’s bedroom having intercourse with her, and you hear her father coming in the front door, you’d stop and get yourself dressed, right? So obviously you can stop if there’s a reason. And being told to stop is a pretty good reason.

13

By the way, here’s a relevant thread with an unfortunate title that I felt died a premature death.

14

Same old nonsense ie If everthing is rape then nothing is rape. Intelligent people have draw a practical bright line at at some point to stop this definitional slippery slope silliness.

I remember once a few years ago when Dr. Laura was still entertaining and less annoying than today, and this women called in extremely upset that some acquaintenace of hers was dating “her rapist”. She went on at length about how terrible this was and how betrayed she felt that this women was dating “her rapist” , and finally Dr. Laura asked her why this guy wasn’t in jail.

The women mumbled something about how the police wouldn’t do their jobs and finally Dr. Laura asked her point blank what happened re her rape. The women goes into this convoluted story about how when she she and this boy were horsing around under a blanket in their underwear at some Co-ed slumber party and somehow, someway his penis penetrated her vagina.

Dr. Laura said … “You’re kidding?” No… the women say she isn’t and goes on about how this this awful violation has ruined sex for her etc. etc. Dr. Laura closes up quickly at that point tells her she needs therapy and that whatever the hell happened under that blanket it didn’t qualify as rape in her opinion.

It’s silly, hysterical people like this that make life difficult for those who really have been violated.

15

This is what I don’t get. Why in the hell would someone want to claim to have been the victim of something as horrible as rape?

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that rape victims should feel any sort of shame or embarrassment whatsoever about what has happened to them. But I thank my lucky stars every day that rape is something that’s never happened to me.

So, as a hypothetical, in the case of the OP, what if we all came back and said, “OMG, yes, overlyverbose, you were raped!”

What would she do? Suddenly start feeling awful when she never did before? Suddenly start undergoing all of the psychological trauma that can occur when one is the victim of such a horrible crime?

I realize that there are indeed some people who, because of low self-esteem or what have you, have indeed been raped without realizing it, or without realizing that what happened was no fault of their own. And in that case, it is truly a tragedy.

But IMO, painting “rape” with such a broad brush opens the door for all sorts of people to paint themselves as victims of rape when they aren’t (which, again, I don’t get). And frankly I think it totally undermines those people who truly have been victims of such an attack. I’m not a big believer in “My trauma trumps YOUR trauma” arguments, but to me, rape is a BIG DEAL and I think it’d be just shitty of me to be in some support group wailing about the time I screwed my SO on his birthday even though I had a headache, when there would likely be women there who’d been attacked and beaten senseless by some guy who leapt at them from out of the bushes.

I hope that makes sense.

16

Couple of minutes, nothing shocking. And I did tell her “I’m almost there” to which she said “just stop now”.

17

I tend to agree with that. The crime should not be trivialized.

I tend to agree with that as well. I don’t know what it’s like to be on the receiving end of this sort of thing, so I don’t know if something can happen to change the nature of the act. Someone may want to wrestle with me, but if I start hurting him, then he certainly has the right to demand we stop and I the obligation to do so. I suppose that if he is big and her eyes are bigger than her vagina, and if this sort of situation is truly painful, then I can’t see her being under any obligation to continue the act. Certainly as a person who is causing physical (or emotional) pain to another person should be obligated to stop when asked to do so.

On the other hand, I can’t see a man being obligated to stop just because she willy-nilly changes her mind midway through the act.

The thing is, if the law is written so that if she’s in pain, he must stop, but if she isn’t, then he doesn’t, then any woman in the latter group can claim to be in the former. So then the law protects women in the first group at the risk of convicting men in the second group. You women have a whole other thing going on–can the act become painful part way through?

18

Possible reasons:

Having actually been raped and wanting to make sure that the rapist gets stopped and/or conditions that facilitated the rape get changed. That has brought many forward to make the (in their case, true) claim of being raped. They were not forced to make the statement but did so of their own volition–thus wanting to.

Compulsive attention-seeking behavior. If some people will inflict personal injury in order to get attention (Munchausen’s Syndrome), it’s not unlikely that other people will probably claim to be victims in order to get attention and approval.

Wishing to injure the alleged rapist by means of the accusation. Alternatively, wishing to injure a group by means of the accusation.

Rationalizing past behavior that one wishes never happened.

A convenient excuse to use on ones parents for having stayed out too late (yes, it has happened, cf Tuwana Brawley)

19

So… by that same logic… if I take a job of my own free will… but then, one day, I don’t really feel like showing up for work… but I do it anyway… and don’t tell the boss I’m sick or I don’t feel like working or I’m not in the mood…

…then I have been enslaved?

20

Why? I think he is obligated to stop if she tells him to.

I think either party should be able to interrupt the act of sex at any time for any reason or no reason. Nobody has to be in pain, they just have to have decided they don’t want to do it anymore. Granted, if you start having sex with someone and then abruptly tell them to stop, you’re bound to be labeled a lousy lover, but lousy lovers are still entitled to protection under the law.