Are there any other democracies that don't require voter ID?

[slash2k]

@bump

Why is there the notion that voting is somehow exempt from any identification requirements, when just about everything else worthwhile requires the exact same identification?

If anything, voting is important enough to require MORE than say… driving or writing a check.

Neither driving nor writing a check is a civil right.

Beyond that, neither is something that everybody needs or wants to do. You may drive, but plenty of people don’t or can’t. I don’t even remember the last time I had to show ID to write a check, mainly because I write so few checks. I haven’t been carded at the liquor store in let’s-not-discuss-exactly-how-many years, and plenty of people don’t buy booze at all. Plenty of people don’t travel by airplane, or visit prisons, or land in other situations demanding ID.

Yes, voting is important. That means it should not be subject to vagaries such as how rich you are, or how careful with documents your parents were, or what hours the relevant government agency is open.

[scr4]

@bump

Why is there the notion that voting is somehow exempt from any identification requirements…

The objection to voter ID laws is that it puts unfair burden on certain classes of people. If you can find a way around that, I think all objections will disappear. For example, the government could mail voting IDs to every eligible voter, at no cost. Or require every single citizen to have a national ID, thus making sure that there is no such thing as “a class of people who don’t have IDs.”

[bump]

@scr4

The objection to voter ID laws is that it puts unfair burden on certain classes of people. If you can find a way around that, I think all objections will disappear.

How do you propose getting around the catch-22, that if you don’t have a copy of your birth certificate, you can’t get a photo ID, and if you don’t have a photo ID, you can’t get a copy of your birth certificate? That seems to be the crux of this problem.

And AFAIK, when you’re born, the county does mail your parents a copy of your birth certificate- giving you a way out of that catch-22 some years in the future. That’s what I was getting at earlier- it’s important for parents to hang on to those things, just like it’s important that they hang on to the SS card and other stuff as well. It sucks that people have incompetent parents, but I don’t see why it’s the government’s problem to facilitate a way around that.
I suppose there’s probably some tortuous path that you can actually get one without the other, but that would run afoul of the same “it’s not totally without effort, and totally free” objections that people throw up. So would fingerprinting, or even any sort of free national photo ID, because they’d have to update the photo periodically, and that would (gasp!) require someone to put forth a bit of effort and time to do that.

The hard fact is that someone who doesn’t have ID is going to have to put SOME effort and SOME cost into getting one, even in free, universal, government-issued-on-birth photo ID schemes.

Beyond that, we’re quibbling about the details of how much and how often.

[elbows]

Here’s an idea, how about instead of ID, we ask to see your tax form?

What’s that? You’ve got a good tax lawyer and you pay zero tax? No vote for you !

(I’m assuming to get social assistance you have to file a tax return, yes? So they’d all qualify automatically.)

How about one step further…giant corporation, pays no taxes, their entire employee roster gets no votes!

What’s the matter?

It’s not so much fun when it’s you that can’t vote!

---

Seriously though, how can anyone defend instituting such laws while, at the very same time, closing the offices where they are available?

And besides, we live in the age of computers, after all. Self driving cars are right around the corner! Are we to believe the voter registration folks can’t rig up a van, with computer access and lots of phone lines, data base access, etc, and drive around to neighbourhoods issuing government photo IDs on the spot, free for anyone not registered!

With all that super PAC money floating around how has this not been funded? I’m gonna go ahead and guess whichever party funded it might even score some votes!

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

I am not sure that having the political parties provide IDs for voters would do much to make the process more secure (though obviously in-person voter fraud is not the problem anyway).

Indeed, but if they are appointed to run a service impartially as a professional obligation, with defined and measurable indicators of what is agreed to be fair, that’s a rather better standard to be working to (and to justify sacking someone if they don’t meet it) than just making sure they’ve got the right political friends. Surely there’s a concept of a professional civil service at some level?

Yes. It’s just that at the state level the people in charge of elections tend not to be civil servants. Local election supervisors usually are, for what it’s worth, and in many states (such as Florida) they are effectively independent of the state election commission.

[slash2k]

@bump

How do you propose getting around the catch-22, that if you don’t have a copy of your birth certificate, you can’t get a photo ID, and if you don’t have a photo ID, you can’t get a copy of your birth certificate? That seems to be the crux of this problem.

AFAIK, every state already has a way around this. The workarounds, however, can be expensive and/or time-consuming. For example, a notarized affidavit will work with some states; other places have different rules on in-person versus mail-order requests. There are fifty sets of rules on access (well, more than that if you count DC, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc., or the various places where both the state and a county office have copies).

@bump

And AFAIK, when you’re born, the county does mail your parents a copy of your birth certificate- giving you a way out of that catch-22 some years in the future. That’s what I was getting at earlier- it’s important for parents to hang on to those things, just like it’s important that they hang on to the SS card and other stuff as well. It sucks that people have incompetent parents, but I don’t see why it’s the government’s problem to facilitate a way around that.

So if your parents are “incompetent” (or dead, or otherwise didn’t have a copy to give you), you don’t deserve to be able to vote? Are there other civil rights you want people to lose because their parents don’t measure up to your standards, or is voting the only one? What rights are you willing for your children to give up if some future legislature decides you didn’t do a good enough job?

(FYI: in my state the county does no such thing, because the county never has the birth certificates in the first place. Fifty states, fifty processes.)

@bump

I suppose there’s probably some tortuous path that you can actually get one without the other, but that would run afoul of the same “it’s not totally without effort, and totally free” objections that people throw up. So would fingerprinting, or even any sort of free national photo ID, because they’d have to update the photo periodically, and that would (gasp!) require someone to put forth a bit of effort and time to do that.

The hard fact is that someone who doesn’t have ID is going to have to put SOME effort and SOME cost into getting one, even in free, universal, government-issued-on-birth photo ID schemes.

Beyond that, we’re quibbling about the details of how much and how often.

[/quote]

Putting forth a bit of effort has NEVER been the objection. Needing to put forth an unreasonable amount of effort and money is the source of the objection.

And what’s wrong with figuring out the details BEFORE we make the process mandatory, rather than screwing around with voting rights and only then trying to decide how to do it in a proper and non-discriminatory way?

[Northern_Piper]

To get back to the OP’s question, it’s not enough just to ask if other countries require ID to vote. The follow-up question is “what kind of ID? How hard is it to produce ID?”

From the discussion on this thread, it sounds like the voter ID laws in the US need government issued photo ID? is that right?

If so, that’s quite different from the situation in Canada. Yes, we need ID to vote, but there’s a huge range of ID that a voter can use, designed to make it easy to show who you are, and also to respect the constitutional right to vote.

Here’s the list, from the web-page of Elections Canada (a non-partisan agency):

[QUOTE=Elections Canada]
There are three options to prove your identity and address:

1) Show one of these pieces of ID

• your driver’s licence
• your provincial or territorial ID card
• any other government card with your photo, name and current address

2) Show two pieces of ID

At least one must have your current address

• health card
• Canadian passport
• birth certificate
• certificate of Canadian citizenship
• citizenship card
• social insurance number card
• Indian status card
• band membership card
• Métis card
• card issued by an Inuit local authority
• Canadian Forces identity card
• Veterans Affairs health card
• old age security card
• hospital card
• medical clinic card
• label on a prescription container
• identity bracelet issued by a hospital or long-term care facility
• blood donor card
• CNIB card
• credit card
• debit card
• employee card
• student identity card
• public transportation card
• library card
• liquor identity card
• parolee card
• firearms licence
• licence or card issued for fishing, trapping or hunting
• utility bill (e.g. electricity; water; telecommunications
• services including telephone, cable or satellite)
• bank statement
• credit union statement
• credit card statement
• personal cheque
• government statement of benefits
• government cheque or cheque stub
• pension plan statement
• residential lease or sub-lease
• mortgage contract or statement
• income tax assessment
• property tax assessment or evaluation
• vehicle ownership
• insurance certificate, policy or statement
• correspondence issued by a school, college or university
• letter from a public curator, public guardian or public trustee
• targeted revision form from Elections Canada to residents of long-term care facilities
• letter of confirmation of residence from a First Nations band or reserve or an Inuit local authority
• letter of confirmation of residence, letter of stay, admission form or statement of benefits from one of the following designated establishments:
• • student residence
• • seniors’ residence
• • long-term care facility
• • shelter
• • soup kitchen

We accept e-statements and e-invoices. Print them or show them on a mobile device.

3) If your ID does not have your current address, take an oath

Show two pieces of ID with your name and have someone who knows you attest to your address. This person must show proof of identity and address, be registered in the same polling division, and attest for only one person.
[/QUOTE]

Note that this list consciously makes it possible for low-income people to prove their ID: a letter from a soup kitchen counts. Elderly? Bring your pills and your health card. Student? letter from your university residence. Aboriginal? ID from your aboriginal group.

So saying that Canada requires voter ID does not mean that the impact of voter ID laws is the same in Canada and in the US.

[rogerbox]

Yes, different from the U.S. where you can use a gun permit and not a student ID depending on your jurisdiction. Yeeeeeehaawwww!

[Lord_Feldon]

@Northern_Piper

From the discussion on this thread, it sounds like the voter ID laws in the US need government issued photo ID? is that right?

It depends. Ohio’s voter ID law allows all kinds of documents. But that’s not enough for some, and there are regular proposals to switch to photo ID only.

[Melbourne]

@Northern_Piper

To get back to the OP’s question, it’s not enough just to ask if other countries require ID to vote. The follow-up question is “what kind of ID? How hard is it to produce ID?”
…
So saying that Canada requires voter ID does not mean that the impact of voter ID laws is the same in Canada and in the US.

This is the Aus voter registration form. You can do it with a drivers licence or a passport … or you just have to know someone (anyone) who is an Australian over the age of 18.

[Melbourne]

@Melbourne

This is the Aus voter registration form. You can do it with a drivers licence or a passport … or you just have to know someone (anyone) who is an Australian over the age of 18.

FWIW, vote fraud in the federal elections is almost unknown. There has been sometimes spectacular fraud in the (independent/private) left/union preselection, where control of the union movement is also at stake, and in local city government, but not in the federal election.

[penultima_thule]

The Australian Electoral Commission blotted an almost flawless copybook when they misplaced 1,375 ballots in the 2013 WA Senate election, when a winning margin for a senate quota was as small as 14 votes, necessitating a new poll.
The miss step aside, they are one of the jewels in the Australian way of doing things and the US could learn a lot a bout how to properly manage what should be an uncomplicated task.

[UDS]

@penultima_thule

The Australian Electoral Commission blotted an almost flawless copybook when they misplaced 1,375 ballots in the 2013 WA Senate election, when a winning margin for a senate quota was as small as 14 votes, necessitating a new poll.
The miss step aside, they are one of the jewels in the Australian way of doing things and the US could learn a lot a bout how to properly manage what should be an uncomplicated task.

I dunno. Compared to how elections are conducted in Ireland, the conduct of Australian elections looks fairly slapdash to me - cardboard ballot boxes, votes being stored and transported in plastic bags, etc. The stuffup in the WA Senate election didn’t happen out of nowhere.