And ironically, the Talmudic sages they spend all their time studying had day jobs, because they were expected to pay their own way in the academies. Rabbi Akiva was a woodchopper. Rabbi Yehoshua was a blacksmith. Rabbi Shammai was a carpenter. Rav was a brewer and a market inspector for the Exilarch. Even Rashi was a vintner.
These guys are taking it to an extreme that even the guys responsible for Judaism evolving into its modern form didn’t adhere to.
I think it is more of “we are a big voting bloc, and if you oppose us, we will go over to the other side.”
But political power is a valid argument, even if not good or reasonable.
That was then - now, I don’t think the other side will take them, not if they want their voters to ever vote for them again.
Isn’t that pretty much the entire basis of their beliefs?
Yeah, imagine living in a country like that…
So the men don’t work, and their wives (will sometimes) have a regular job?
It’s a bit more complicated.
There is a lot of community and sibling involvement in childcare AFAICT, and some outsourcing of cleaning tasks.
Are any of these Yeshivoth accredited academic institutions? If they are, I do not think it is outrageous that someone, somewhere got a scholarship to complete a degree in Religious Studies any more or less than in Nuclear Physics, Computer Science, or Chinese Opera.
However,
I don’t see how you can take religious studies seriously without in-depth knowledge of math, science, English (and Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Arabic, Aramaic, Sanskrit, etc.), history, law, philosophy, art and letters, archaeology, etc.
Maybe the truth is what was suggested before, that these specific religious schools are actually not that great, devised to deliberately stunt minds rather than turn eager young students into great scholars.
You’re confusing Haredi yeshivahs with academic institutions. In fact, they’re much closer to medieval monasteries, only without the self denial, and the useful work like illuminating manuscripts or making wine. Their sole purpose is to worship God, and by doing so, to protect the Jewish people. Supposedly.
College does not exempt one from service in the IDF.
I’ll suggest there’s a difference between “religious studies” as an academic discipline leading to critical analysis, higher degrees, professorships, or service in the clergy and “religious studies” as in “read the holy books (and carefully preselected commentaries) all day in an effort to internalize, if not memorize, every word.”
In US parlance it’s the difference between an e.g. Masters of Divinity and Baptist Bible study all afternoon every Sunday.
So it’s worthwhile to define more specifically whatever it is the Haredim actually do and then what’s the best, or at least most commonly accepted, accurate layman term for that.
I’m sure not the guy to answer that question, but ISTM it’s the question to answer.
They also have to carefully maintain the magic rocks that ward off wild elephant attacks.
Well, aside from the whole “no physical contact with the opposite sex until marriage” thing.
But if does in many other nations.
They marry really young.
“College” implies something you do for a few years and then get a job, though. Yeshiva is a lifelong thing that provides no benefits for the broader society.
Nor did i claim it was the sort of college you go to for a fixed time and get a degree from. But the point was college deferments are apparently not a thing in Israel, but they are common in many other nations.
It is a fool’s game to try to pin down precisely what “benefits… the broader society”. However, the information in this thread has made me suspect that (most? all?) of these Yeshivoth are not it.
Unless you’re a true believer in the power of prayer. I’m sure they would argue that they, too, are protecting the Jewish people from their enemies.
Yes, they do in fact make that argument, which understandably tends to enrage everyone else.
If anyone wants a deep dive into this topic, look up Rabbi Nathan Slifkin; his Substack/blog is called “Rationalist Judaism”. He used to do what it says on the tin, try to reconcile Orthodox Judaism with modern scientific knowledge. But since the war started, he has been solely focused on attacking the Haredim and documenting their insanity, primarily but not exclusively WRT the draft issue. (Note: R. Slifkin is a right-wing Religious Zionist whose views on other topics are likely to offend many here. Fortunately, he rarely discusses any other topics)
Jewish studies would need to cover Hebrew, Aramaic, Jewish history, Jewish law, Jewish philosophy, and Biblical and Rabbinical literature. I don’t see why any other subjects are necessary beyond a primary education. The rabbis of old wrote in Hebrew and spoke Aramaic, with occasional Greek or Latin loanwords that do not require mastery of those languages. Medieval rabbis used Arabic, but are secondary and widely translated. You need to know how to count, add, multiply, and divide to understand numerology used in biblical exegesis. No need to know calculus or Kant. To the Haredim, religious studies means understanding Torah; the Talmud itself (an oral tradition) purports to be the exclusive path to understanding. Rabbinical writings are merely supplemental materials. So much less important is the historic-philosophical context in which those rabbis wrote their treatises.
~Max