I can’t go with that. He’s not some angry in-your-face proslytizer who was trying to force my hand (much). He’s a nice old man who was asking what in his mind was probably everyday conversation.
And by engaging him like that, I would have done the exact opposite of what I want, which is NOT engaging him. That’s the choice I wish to exercise here.
It seems like a lot of believers think atheists are being arrogant when we have the audacity to point out that we don’t agree with them. The nerve!
I used to just clam up when people brought up religion, but if they start the conersation, I’ll give them my thoughts. I guess that makes me arrogant, but I’m not the one who needs to have my magic words on American currency.
Actually you’ve nicely said what agnosticism means - and I’ve read Huxley. For some reason theists think it means someone whose mind is not made up, so a chicken atheist can use it without the stigma that atheism carries (which stems from before we came out and were arrogant at saying we existed.)
One either believes in a god or lacks belief in a god. How strongly you hold this belief is immaterial - plenty of believers don’t seem to care very much.
In this country not only do people feel they have a right to their opinions, they feel they have a right not to be corrected when they spout their demonstrably incorrect opinions. And they call people who do correct them arrogant. Much easier than actually figuring out you were wrong.
I simply say, “Grace. Let’s eat.” And then start chowing down.
I always say “I won’t deny your faith, but you have to realize that is all that you have. You have no evidence or proof.” Leave it at that.
Still too confrontational, accusatory, and engaging. What I want to say, in the most polite way, is I’m not having this conversation.
Given the replies in the ATMB topic, I have changed my mind.
Your subsequent posts both in this topic and in the ATMB topic have seemed to point more towards minor trolling. Please do not start threads like this if you have no interest in coming back to them, because it makes it look more like it’s just trying to fish for reactions.
Furthermore, since this topic has spurned some good discussion, I will be leaving it open…however, I’m moving it to the Pit, so that people can express their outrage better if they so wish.
That’s a conversation I couldn’t imagine having in the UK. (At least, not with an out-and-out crazy street person.)
Put in such a position, I would simply say “I’m not into religion” and leave it at that.
They don’t ask about 24 or 25 Dec; why should they care if I have a nice 25 Dec or not? As for their 25 Dec, these people are often strangers (store clerks, &c), so I don’t particularly care if they have a nice day or not.
“Scholarly discourse”? What “scholarly discourse”? They say “Have a nice Xmas,” I say “No, thank you.” If they ask why I don’t want one, I say it’s because I’m not a Christian. Usually they then ask if I’m Jewish, and I say “No, atheist.” End of discussion. (Same thing happens at Easter, though not as often.)
I’ve found that, “I’m not a Christian,” works pretty well too. It’s less namby-pamby than, “I’m not into religion,” (though I’ve said that in the past as well). But at least if you feel self-conscious about outing yourself as an atheist, it’s a truthful foot in the door.
Of course, the usual response is usually, “Oh, I didn’t realize you were Jewish,” like those are the only two options.
For me, “I’m not into religion,” isn’t quite true. It’s pulling the punch. I hold organized religion in contempt. That’s a little more than, “not being into it.”
Edit: Hah. I hadn’t read **SCadian’s **post whilst composing mine. Seems the “funny, you don’t look Jewish,” paradigm isn’t as localized as it seems.
Yes - as I said in the ATMB thread, Bijou Drains is a simple twit. A jerk, by Board standards. I’m sorry I can’t bring the flame as befits a quality Pitting - but he’s kinda not worth the trouble. Just a twit.
Oh please. Christmas has become a secular holiday in the US whether you like it or not, and most of those wishing you a Merry Christmas are doing so just to be nice since most people (including many atheists & Jews) in the US celebrate it in some way.
But who cares if you’re a jerk to them, they’re only store clerks after all. It’s not like they’re real people.
Yeah FUCK store clerks! Those fucking assholes! How fucking dare they say something nice that they were probably told to say by their employer! I wish there was a God and Debil just so they could go rot in hell for ALL ETERNITY!!!
tdn: No. My beliefs are private.
The important part, then, is to not even engage after you make that point. Don’t answer when he asks if you’re going to church, and don’t answer anything about your relationship (or lack thereof) with God. Don’t make excuses as if it’s a conversation you should be having - just leave. Ignore him if you have to, but don’t let him bully you into talking about it if you don’t want to.
Well, I obligingly go along with dinner prayers (A-to the fucking men, y’all!), express gratitude for promised prayers to relieve illness and impending death (cause I surely deserve a pardon from a head cold while innocent school children perish in a hail of bullets or rotten, cancerous tumors) return holiday greetings (no, *u *have a Merry Christ’s birth!), and even claim to belong to a church (Methodist in a neighboring state) so I don’t unkindly tax the tender, delicate sympathies of Christians who gleefully instruct children that a certain fiery, bloody, torturous Hell full of horrors, eternal punishment, and pitchforking, asshumping devilish devils awaits those who masturbate, mix cloths, cut their hair, or doubt that Jesus was the magical half-god, half human masochist who did them all a righteous solid.
So you can’t call me arrogant!!
Oh, and bijou’s a total shithead.
And you derived this from my post … how?
In my experience, atheists are arrogant and deservedly so. It takes both moral fortitude and courageousness to go in the face of what 90% of the people believe in and do so while ensnared in the enemy’s schools and culture. Atheists are smarter people, period, and their arrogance is deserved. I’m proud to be an arrogant atheist and so should anyone who becomes an atheist through reasoning and logic.
Well gee, coulda been this:
But it seems I was raised with the idea that “Don’t be a jerk to people” is actually something to follow, a quality too many people are lacking.
Best answer so far, thank you.
FTR he hasn’t brought it up since.