Because the whole point of agnosticism is sucking up to the believers. It’s giving religion a special status not accorded to other beliefs; no one is “agnostic” about goblins or Santa Claus. Agnosticism is like going up to religious people and grovelling in a a show of submission before them; the agnostic is acknowledging the power and dominance of the believer. Of course they like it.
:rolleyes: Because the religious won’t leave the rest of us alone, and cause all manner of harm to the world. Obviously.
I guess I understand this whole idea that “atheists are arrogant”. I don’t agree, but I suppose I see where the notion comes from. What I see is that instead of arrogance, most atheists are simply incredulous that other people don’t see the obvious.
“It’s right there in front of your eyes!”
Some atheists feel more vexed by this situation than others and hence, are more vociferous about pointing it out.
Yes, yes, I can see that this “nagging need to spread the truth” can be seen as equivalent to Christians and other theists evangelizing. The difference being, of course, that theists are trying to get others to see something that isn’t there—that is only in their heads—and atheists are using the time-tested methods of logic, rationality, and science to try to get their message across.
Vive la différence!
It really is so very much like “The Emperor’s New Clothes”. Atheists are like the little boy, whose only arrogance is pointing out the obvious. If some group of folks went around loudly proclaiming there was no such thing as the Tooth Fairy they would never be accused of arrogance!
Instead they would be admonished: “Shhhhhhh!!! You’re ruining it for all the kids!”
Extra “loud” atheists aren’t arrogant, they’re just “Ruining it for all the kids!!!” But kids do eventually grow up.
That doesn’t always work. When I was a teenager there was this one Christian woman who shopped at the supermarket where I worked. She constantly tried to witness staff and handed out pamplets (in violation of post policy). I was just about the only person who refused them (as opposed to politely accepting them & throwing them out as soon as she left). In fact I’d actively tell her she wasn’t allowed to do that. She’d smile, then leave one in the bagging are as soon as I turned around to serve the next customer.
She’d also try to engage my in conversation by asking me stuff like what church I went to or if I’d “accepted Jesus into my heart”. I tried being polite and dodging the issue by saying I was Jewish (genealogically true), and that worked that time. The next time I saw her she brought me special pamphlets for Jews :dubious: and went on about her pastor used to be Jewish.
Then one day she had her son (or possibly grandson) with her. He was about 6 or 7. Same routine. I told her I didn’t want her any pamphlets & refused to take one. Then the little boy asked “But mister don’t you want God to love you?” while she smilled. To which I responed “No”. The baffled little boy asked why, to which I responed “Because he isn’t real, he’s made up like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy”. He started crying his eyes out, she looked at my like I’d just sprouted horns, and I never saw set foot in the store again.
Was any thing I did “rude” or “arrogant”? What about any thing did? Or the boy for that matter?
I hadn’t considered it before but more than half of my family and friends are atheists (and my beloved grandfather was staunchly so), but the only ones who carry on about it a bit are the teenagers and very young adults, I think perhaps they feel they’ve made a momentous discovery and want everyone to know they have. They don’t realize that almost everyone who has ended up a believer (at least in my cicle) made the same discovery at about the same age.
I don’t really consider that arrogant, though, just youthful naivete. I do consider those few people I’ve met who like to point out that all religious people are stupid (even in the presence of religious people obviously not so) pretty arrogant, but fortunately they are rare IRL IME.
The internet, of course, is a different thing altogether.
For all of me, you did nothing wrong. However, be wary: I did something similar to a little girl who came to my front door. “I’m sorry, miss, but you have been lied to. God is just a fable made up by ignorant people long ago.” She didn’t cry, but stared in utter amazement, and fled back to her guardian, who’d hung back to let her ring the doorbell by herself.
I mentioned that in a forum like this one…and the responses I got were extremely critical. What I did (and what you did) is, in some people’s opinion, nothing less than child abuse.
My feeling is that since you and I both put our responses in proper, neutral language – no snarling, no threats, just a statement of belief/fact – we did nothing wrong. But…brace yourself, as there may be those who will be highly disapproving.
My lack of belief has never been called arrogant, mainly because nobody asks me about it. It’s great. I get more grief over not supporting any sports teams or alternative medicine.
I sometimes get given a leaflet in the high street, but as long as they’re not anti-abortion or anti-evolution (which I’d get just as pissed off about if they were secular, and some of them are), I don’t care. They’ve decided to spend their free time giving out leaflets, I’ve decided to spend it not reading them.
Religion getting in the way of a country’s politics is another matter, but again, there are secular arguments I consider just as illogical.
I have quietly hidden my lack of belief for decades because too many religious people I come in contact with are intolerant of anyone who doesn’t be believe the way they do. I am thankful to have found people like me here and it is reassuing to see the billboards telling me that there are other non-believers out there. It’s that simple.
The religious constantly push and probe without the slightest shame. Sometimes you have to push back a little just to keep your balance.
The worst part of it is that the religious often don’t see what they do, what they say and what they expect of others as “pushing” at all so that, when they experience even the mildest of resistance, it comes as something of a shock to them.
There are theists whose worldview does not allow for people who don’t believe what they believe. They make it a mission to denigrate, humiliate, objectify, and otherwise minimize the thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs of those whose belief systems don’t jive with theirs.
They’re arrogant jerks.
There are atheists whose worldview does not allow for people who don’t believe what they believe. They make it a mission to denigrate, humiliate, objectify, and otherwise minimize the thoughts, attitudes, and beliefs of those whose belief systems don’t jive with theirs.
They’re also arrogant jerks.
They are exactly the same type of arrogant jerk and exactly as ridiculous to listen to when they prattle on about how they’re saving the world with their perfect and true knowledge.
On the contrary; intrusive religion very much exists.
If you believe in God, it’s no skin off my nose. If you’re trying to make it government policy that other people can’t get married, or don’t get to decide for themselves how many children they have, because you believe in God, it is absolutely something to oppose.
The OP hasn’t bothered to give any more details, but someone who disagrees with you usually seems more arrogant than someone who agrees with you. Especially if they won’t back down from their opinion later on by saying ‘well, who knows- maybe you’re right.’
False equivalency, as my atheism does not not command me to annoy others with my beliefs. For this reason, the fraction of atheists that impose their beliefs on others is smaller than the fraction of christians who do the same thing.
My college girlfriend was an atheist. We were together for 5 years. She never argued religion or made a big deal out of it. The extent of her arrogance when it came to theism/athiesm was answering “Well, I don’t believe in God” when asked what religion she was.
Then, there’s a coworker, who I am friendly with, but I avoid all religion topics with him, lest I be pulled into an annoyingly over the top dissing of all the world’s religions as surreptitious mind-control organizations that do nothing but create an army of idiots that mindlessly follow their leaders.
To be honest, I couldn’t tell you which and how many of my friends are atheist. As for theists, other than the ones I know who go to church and who I assume believe in god–although that is not necessarily proof as I occasionally go to church, too, and I’m an agnostic atheist–I’m not sure which people do believe in God, either. Oh, and there’s Facebook. I rarely see any posts on my feed regarding atheism. In fact, I can’t remember ever seeing one. I’ll see mentions of God every so often, but in a non-proselytizing manner, usually.
Agree wholeheartedly. Frankly, I don’t want to be involved in a discussion with either group.
I believe what I believe and you believe differently. I won’t push my beliefs on you so stop trying to push yours on me.
It works from both sides.
I think the difference from my perspective is that in my social circle, I am the minority being that I have faith. It’s to the point that I only mention it if prodded and don’t ever wear my cross (that I wore for twenty years) unless I am going to church.
No, it just means that your chances of being exposed to one of the atheist variety are damn slim compared to being exposed to one of the religious variety, so it would be expected that the religious ones would be more annoying overall than the atheists ones, right?
He started crying his eyes out, she looked at my like I’d just sprouted horns, and I never saw set foot in the store again.
