I am not talking about just deemphasizing his teachings and influence. I mean refusing to see him as an apostle at all.
I’ve never heard of any, however the term Christian was first biblically made by Paul, so your question may be self defeating as those sects who do not identify with Paul would tend not to use the term Christian(ity). As such I’ve heard of some who identify to follow ‘the way’ which deemphasized Paul however Paul is still a apostle (but ONLY an apostle).
As I understand it, he wasn’t an apostle, except in his own mind. He also talked to Jesus a lot, even though he never met the guy.
He wasn’t one of the Twelve, but he was definitely an apostle.
Religion based only what Jesus said isn’t quite the same thing, but it’s close enough that some of the posts from that thread may be relevant here.
Most mainstream Christians definitely consider Paul to be a full-fledged member of the Twelve, with Matthias being the odd man out.
Some go so far as to say that the other apostles made a mistake when they chose Matthias, and that he wasn’t actually a real apostle at all.
Acts 15:22-26 and II Peter 3:15,16 show that the other apostles recognized Paul as an equal.
An apostle, yes; one of the Twelve, no. I can’t remember ever hearing “the Twelve Apostles” used so as to include Paul. But if you need a cite, see the Wikipedia article on Paul the Apostle.
I have never heard any Christian, mainstream or otherwise, say the apostles made a mistake when they chose Matthias to replace Judas, or that he wasn’t a “real apostle.” Read Acts 1:21-26. It’s pretty clear they were looking for someone who had been with them the whole time Jesus was ministering on Earth, from his baptism to his ascension. Paul never came close to fitting the bill. Plus, the apostles’ prayer before casting lots makes it pretty clear that (from a Christian’s perspective), Christ himself, or the Holy Spirit made the final choice.
I also find it dubious that anyone considers Paul to be one of the 12, because he wasn’t. Neither was Luke or Silas or Barnabas. They were early church leaders, apostles and missionaries. But Paul wasn’t even a follower of Christ when they chose Judas’ replacement.
I’ve never seen or heard of a version of the New Testament that excludes Paul’s writings.
There were some early Christians who adhered to Jewish law, considered James to be the start of the priestly lineage, etc. One such group, the Ebionites, basically stuck with an Aramaic version of Matthew (and no Paul and such). But the ones I can find now seem to have all died out long ago.
I remember reading an article about a similar, small, church in Syria and vicinity that claimed to be a James-originated church but I can’t find it now. Sort of like the Mandeans who trace their religion back to John the Baptist and beyond. Supposedly the last Gnostic church still around. But they aren’t Christians. (And barely holding on thanks to the Iraq war.)
Gnostics, in general, weren’t fans of Paul and held out in decent numbers for quite some time. The Epistle of James is basically a Gnostic text which makes the more pro-Pauline people uncomfortable. Esp. given the lack of reference to resurrection and such matters.
Are Mark and Luke canonically considered apostles? I’ve seen Mary Magdalene referred to as such (by that *National Geographic *issue about the apostles), but suspect the others never showed her the fraternity handshake.
Mark and Luke are not among the Twelve. But are they apostles? They are more generally called evangelists (they are two of the Four Evangelists) but it’s not as though there is a canonical definition of, or closed list of, apostles. Paul, as noted, claims the title for himself and church tradition generally accepts this. There’s also a tradition of the seventy-two apostles, based on a pasage in Luke in which Jesus commissions this number of disciples to go out, two by two, to preach on his behalf.
Mary Magdalene is not named as an apostle, although she has recently been required to be honored by the Catholic church with the same level of solemnity (a “feast day” on her day of remembrance, July 22). Rather she is called, by Thomas Aquinas originally, as St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, the ‘apostolorum apostola’, the Apostle to the Apostles, as she was the first witness to the Resurrection and testified to the truth of it to the others. This is in the gospel of John, who has quite a different take on things than the synoptics (the other three gospels).
Have you been reading or listening to Bart Ehrman? That’s basically what I was going to come in here and say but it’s been a few years since I’ve read or listened to his courses.
I think most Christians would consider any of the early followers of Christ who preached the Gospel to be apostles-- Luke, Paul, Silas, Barnabas, etc. That doesn’t mean that Barnabas and Luke and Paul and Silas were among the capital A Apostles, i.e. one of the 12. But the definition of apostle, lowercase a, is someone who is sent off to convey a message. Those early church leaders and missionaries were doing just that. That’s why it’s not uncommon to hear people refer to Paul as “the apostle Paul.” And
That’s the 64,000 shekel question - what is an apostle? I always assumed, from Sunday School, the designated 12 (or 13) were officially Apostles, and nobody else. Everyone else was a disciple.
Heh. What I learned in Sunday school was the “Twelve Disciples”. The word “apostle” was simply a fancy* word for missionary.
*This is, used by papists.
There seems to be some confusion between disciples and apostles. The disciples were the original 12 men chosen by Jesus to be with him during his entire (albeit brief) ministry on earth. The apostles were the men who carried on to spread the Word after his departure. Saul was actually an agent for the Roman government during Christ’s ministry, certainly not one of the chosen 12. He was, in fact, converted to Christianity on the road to Damascus. He was best known for preaching to the Gentiles because he WAS a Gentile and not a Jew.
According to whom? Because his autobiography seems to indicate otherwise.
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The disciple/apostle distinction is a much later thing. At the time they used “apostle” or equivalent for all of them.
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Paul on himself in Philippians 3:5 " …circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; according to the law, a Pharisee;" He studied under Gamaliel but opted not to become a rabbi.
ETA: Ninjad!