Michael Jordan was inducted into the basketball Hall of Fame as pretty much the consensus Greatest (basketball player) Of All Time. In other sports, there are also consensus “best of all time” players:
Wayne Gretzky (Hockey, scoring)
Cy Young (Baseball, pitching)
Tiger Woods (Well, Jack Nicklaus for another 2 years, but then Tiger, golf)
But in football, there’s never an easy discussion at any position except WR, and even that has some controversy:
WR (Jerry Rice is considered the GOAT at WR, but there’s some discussion about how much he benefited from his opponents not being able to counteract the West Coast offense.)
QB (Montana, Marino, Elway, Unitas, etc.)
O-Line (no stats recorded, so no way to compare across decades)
D-Line (Sack wasn’t a stat until the 80’s)
RB (Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith, Barry Sanders)
TE (no stat for blocking)
etc.
Are there clearly GOATs at specific positions in football?
I’d dispute even the GOATs that you considered consensus (that is, I’d dispute that they’re consensus). I’ve heard plenty of argument about MJ vis a vis Russell or Chamberlain, for instance.
Gretzky and Ruth are the two closest, I’d say, with the former being quite a bit ahead. But as a general rule my feeling is there’s no such thing as an agreed-upon opinion when it comes to sports.
Quarterback: Joe Montana
Running back: Barry Sanders
Fullback: Bronco Nagurski
Receiver: Jerry Rice
Tight End: Kellen Winslow
Offensive Lineman: Anthony Munoz
Defensive Lineman: Reggie White
Linebacker: Lawrence Taylor
Defensive Back: Dick Lane
Safety: Ronnie Lott
Notable omissions: Sammy Baugh, Jim Brown, Jack Youngblood, Deion Sanders, Mike Butkus.
There are so many positions in football
QB- Marino-Unitas
R.B. Payton-Sanders
TE- Winslow
tackle- Munoz
center -Webster
safety- Lott
punter-Ray Guy
cornerback- Blount
DE- Mean Joe Greene
LB- Lawrence Taylor
Field goals- Anderson-
Hard to argue.
Kick Returns: Devin Hester; the main thing curbing his records-breaking trajectory from the midpoint or so of his second season on was other teams’ growing unwillingness to kick to him, which took on comic dimensions at times (as in the case of the coach who ordered his player to boot the ball into Lake Michigan rather than kick it to Hester).
Even so, he managed to break four NFL returns records in his first two years in the NFL.
No GOATs in football. It’s far too much of a team game. Every position is hugely affected but the players around it and the system and situation in which it’s put.
Golf and Baseball are essentially individual sports and declaring a GOAT isn’t completely absurd. There is room for debate as statistics aren’t the only measure but they are pretty damned persuasive.
Soccer, Hockey and Basketball are team games but they are team games where individual efforts frequently and clearly stand out. A huge sample size of game occur in which consensuses can reasonably occur.
Football is a strange bird. The positions vary widely and none except perhaps kicker happen in anything close to isolation. The sample size of games is comparatively small and within those games the sample size of the plays involving many positions is a fraction of that even. Complicating matters even further is that so many statistics are subjective at best and often nonexistent. Of course this is what makes the debate so much fun, even if a majority opinion is impossible.
PS: Michael Jordan is the GOAT. All other discussion is misguided or pure contrarianism. It’s really not even that close.
True, he’s remarkably young, but what would you say of a 15-year veteran returns man who had four NFL records to his name? If you’d be willing to consider him the GOAT in returns, why not Hester, who did it so much faster?
In any event, I trust that Hester will be running circles [no pun intended] around his critics before his career is through.
re: Hester: I dunno, he’s not the main returner anymore, but it’s pretty compelling that he did all that he did within two years.
re: White vs Bruce Smith vs Whoever: Imho, I think there’s a huge disparity in opinion based on which players you’ve actually seen in your lifetime, which adds to the lack of consensus.
Omni is correct in that it’s hard to really name a GOAT in football. The main reason is that its an extremely team-oriented sport, and one position can’t dominate. I think another reason is the relatively large number of players in the league (which creates more deserving candidates) and the high injury rate (which shorts some careers and also leads to more candidates getting playing time… just look at Tom Brady).
Most people will agree with Jerry Rice for his position, but I think he’s the only one who is widely agreed upon. And he serves as a good example why football is hard to pick a greatest for … 1) he only suffered one injury, and missed only the one season; 2) he played with a LOT of good people on his team (I mean, Tim Brown caught 1000 balls playing for the terrible Raiders… what would he have done on the 49ers?) and 3) he played receiver, which is a position you can stay relatively healthy and have a long career… not many RBs lasting into their 40s, to compare.
I also wonder if part of it is just the game changing a lot over the years. But I don’t know enough about other sports to know if football has really changed more than other sports has in a similar amount of time.
Even Ray Guy has his detractors (and I’m not sure myself if they’re wrong or not).
There are probably some consensus guys at various positions.
Skill Positions
QB - Too many for a consensus. Marino/Montana are the top of my list but I can see arguments for a lot of guys.
RB - Barry Sanders was the most electric, but wasn’t perfect. Walter Payton and even Emmett Smith are in the discussion for their various attributes, but Barry was the best runner.
WR - Jerry Rice is probably consensus here. Randy Moss is in the discussion but he needs to retire so we can get real perspective on his career.
TE - Kellen Winslow Sr. is probably consensus here, but I think partly because he “revolutionized” the position. Tony Gonzalez is in the picture but also needs to retire before we can really assess.
Other positions
Offensive Tackle: Anthony Munoz (probably consensus)
Center: Mike Webster (probably consensus)
Guard: John Hannah (probably consensus)
Defensive End: Reggie White (probably consensus)
Defensive Tackle: Joe Greene (probably consensus)
Linebacker: Lawrence Taylor (consensus)
Safety: Ronnie Lott (probably consensus)
Cornerback: Ron Woodson (probably consensus)
Dante Hall had a rapid rise and fall, too. It’s part of the kick returning business. These days Hester doesn’t return punts anymore and they’re trying to use him as a wide receiver.
I think Jim Brown is probably the consensus greatest running back, but maybe I am mostly familiar with the views of old timers.